# Okay to create a subhuman species ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683 "2008-11-20T18:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/81 "2008-11-22T23:09:32Z")
Quoth **jsgoddess** : > [@](#): > > But to deliberately create beings whose purpose is, to use my same example, to kill the bugs and spiders and other pests, when that purpose is so singular that if they stopped killing the pests they would cease to have any value for me and I would cease to caretake them, I have issues with that. But there are many animals in the world to which that standard is applied, and you likely benefit from their “slavery”. When a chicken stops laying eggs, the farmer has chicken soup for supper that night. And farmed pigs have no purpose other than meat: The pig _can’t_ even serve its intended purpose until after the pigkeeper stops caring for it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/82 "2008-11-23T01:39:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But there’s a difference between human beings and non-human animals. Human beings have, you know, big brains and consciousness and so on. > > If you give an animal a human-grade brain what’s the ethical distinction? You don’t give them a human-grade brain in the first place. Chimps are plenty smart as it is. They’re just really hard to control. > [@](#): > > Is the essence of humanity simply that we belong to a particular species and no being outside our species is entitled to any moral or ethical considerations? If peaceful aliens from Alpha Centauri landed on the White House lawn tomorrow, would it be ethical to treat them as domesticated animals? I think that’s outside the parameters of what I was discussing. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/83 "2008-11-23T05:42:45Z")
I don’t think there’s any economic incentive to creating a slave species. Lots of jobs suck, but people need those shitty jobs to survive. Why’s a dog part of the genetic equation anyhow? That’d needlessly complicate things. Who knows, perhaps the humanzee is achievable through traditional (shudders) means. Could closely DNA related primates be impregnated by human sperm? Or chimps sperm and human eggs? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/84 "2008-11-23T05:46:59Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Who knows, perhaps the humanzee is achievable through traditional (shudders) means. Could closely DNA related primates be impregnated by human sperm? Or chimps sperm and human eggs? There have been GQ threads about this. The learned answer is that a humanzee may be possible, but nobody knows for sure, ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/85 "2008-11-23T05:59:24Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > There have been GQ threads about this. The learned answer is that a humanzee may be possible, but nobody knows for sure, I wonder how far along other countries might secretly be with this. Perhaps that’s how China pulled off it’s opening Olympic ceremony - monkeyman power! ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/86 "2008-11-23T06:00:50Z")
I am surprised to see this thread get so far, even in GD, with no discussion of the benefits of monkey butlers. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/87 "2008-11-23T06:13:45Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > There have been GQ threads about this. The learned answer is that a humanzee may be possible, but nobody knows for sure, I thought the answer also included, “what scientist would be brave enough to try it and publish?” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/88 "2008-11-24T03:10:48Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I thought the answer also included, “what scientist would be brave enough to try it and publish?” Another approach would be to try and hybridize chimps and gorillas. Since humans are more closely related to chimps than gorillas are, if they can do it, we almost certainly could, too. We know that gibbon species that are much more distantly related than humans and chimps can hybridize. ---
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/89 "2008-11-24T03:58:49Z")
> [@MrBerious](#): > > A dog can learn tricks, feel pain, will shy away from experiences that have caused it pain in the past. How is that not sentience? > > Chimps can recognize their reflection in the mirror, that shows a degree of self-awareness nearly unique in animals. > > No, we don’t all agree at all. If you start mixing dogs, chimps and humans you might end up with a loyal, docile servant who washes windows, does dishes, takes banana breaks, chases cars for fun and pees on every fire hydrant. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/90 "2008-11-24T20:30:06Z")
Did anyone ever asked R2 if he wanted to be an astromech droid, or pay him for his services? My opinion is that any species we create is no longer a species, but a biological machine that we are free to do with as we please. I would stipulate that they must want to willingly serve in that capacity if they are capable of sentient thought, but I’ve no issues with the willingness being programmed into them. I would also stipulate that any species or machine we make must be made, insofar as our capabilities allow, to reduce or eliminate suffering, physical and emotional. I.e. little or no emotional capacity, and only enough pain reception to warn about self damage. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/91 "2008-11-24T20:35:54Z")
I think the reason for the dog admixture was to get the desired temperment and eagerness to please humans. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/92 "2008-11-24T20:41:38Z")
Oh, I forgot to ask, what is the difference between this hypothetical slave creature and a working animal? A horse pulling a trailer is the definition of a slave, simply a bit further down the scale of sentience than humans. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/93 "2008-11-24T23:37:11Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > There was a thread awhile back about vat-grown meat. I think the better solution is to grow a slab of meat with no brain at all. And elect it as our most recent Republican President. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683.md?page=4)