# Oklahoma Couple Kills Puppy, Tans Hide **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346 "2009-06-19T23:05:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/101 "2009-06-22T02:29:09Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Hand to god I don’t mean to be a dick by asking this question, but have you ever killed your meal or watched it be slaughtered? I have killed rabbits and chickens for food. I have ridden along on other hunting expeditions. I fully agree with you that the concept of hunting/slaughtering one’s own food is a drastic difference from actually doing so. Being the one doing so is hard for me on many levels, but if you’re planning rabbit stew, then you go out to the rabbit hutch, which has NO PETS ONLY FOOD, and do what has to be done as quickly and cleanly as possible. > [@Dissonance](#): > > As for not being killed respectfully or the youth of an animal - well do you think baby seal hunters or those raising cattle for veal should be charged with felony cruelty to animals? For that matter, how exactly does one ‘respectfully’ kill? Does a steel bolt to the brain cut it? A bullet to the brain? Being clubbed in the head so as not to damage the fur? Was this couple’s real crime being horrible shots and taking 10 bullets to do what they should have with one? One kills respectfully by doing the least damaging and the most painless death possible. Baby seal hunters and those raising cattle for veal are fine, in my opinion. Keeping pigs in the pen for future food is quite different from having a pet potbelly pig you play with, treat like a member of the family, and train. Just like you can eat horsemeat, but you don’t eat the shetland pony all your kids learned to ride on, and give carrots and sugar cubes to every day. Perhaps my beliefs and feelings can’t be rationally explained, or I’m just doing a poor job of explaining. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/102 "2009-06-22T03:28:28Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well I have three cats who I haven’t skinned. 😉 > > I don’t know where you got the idea that I think skinning puppies is good. I just take it a step farther and say that all skinning of animals is bad. If skinning a puppy is illegal so should skinning an ermine be. > > So the question is not about whether _I_ or **miller** object to animal cruelty, it’s whether those arguing another position do. Do you object to animal cruelty or do object to canine cruelty? > > It seems like a lot of people here care only because it was a puppy. In that case it shows they don’t give a fuck about animal cruelty, they only care because it was a puppy. > > I eat meat, so there is some inherent cruelty involved in that, but more parts of the animals I eat than just their skins are used. > > I don’t think you should torture and kill a puppy, I just think it’s hypocritical to have laws for animal cruelty that only apply to cute and cuddly sentimental animals. Cute ,cuddly? You mean pets. That does make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/103 "2009-06-22T10:29:37Z")
What if they had gone to the vet, gotten the puppy killed, brought it home and skinned it for a belt? Would that then be legally cruelty? If not, then it was the way of killing which make the difference. I, personally, feel the crime (morally not legally) was to kill an innocent to hurt the ex. Had they bought the dog to make a belt and killed it painlessly, they would be strange, perhaps, but no worse. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/104 "2009-06-22T12:54:58Z")
I can’t make a judgement on this – it’s too complicated. I will wait until the Disney version of the story comes out – tentatively entitled _My Belt Skip_. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/105 "2009-06-22T15:39:15Z")
Option 1- sell dog. They have value and they could have made money Option 2-give dog away-they are smart and popular dogs Option 3- Give dog to Humane Society Option 4- Shoot it ten times and skin it. MWAS finds these options equal and thinks giving option 4 less than an equal respect shows you are weak and love animals too much. It is just a 4 legged meat sack and you should be allowed to do whatever you want to them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/106 "2009-06-22T20:42:37Z")
gonzomax: Your last post proved what another poster said about you upthread. Even for animals usually considered to be foodstuffs, one is not “allowed to do whatever you want to them.” ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/107 "2009-06-22T20:51:22Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I saw the thread title while still trying to wake up this morning. I thought it said Obama, not Oklahoma, and thought, “Oh, what _now_?” I’m almost disappointed it wasn’t. I think you may be onto something here: \*Well I’e never been to Kenya But I’ve been to Indonesia I don’t think that I was born there But I might have had amnesia At a Madrassa Not in Mombasa What does it matter?\* ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/108 "2009-06-22T21:12:42Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Here goes. As a society, we have determined that certain animals that serve as companions for millions of people deserve to be treated as humanely as possible. Humans form a bond with these animals that approaches the bond they can form with other humans. Torturing those animals has a negative psychological effect on society as a whole, and so we, as a society, have enacted laws to prevent such torture. So the criterion for separating “animals we can shoot” and “animals we can’t shoot” is whether or not they fetch your slippers? That seems logical. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/109 "2009-06-22T21:17:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Lewis wanted the puppy, named Poplin, killed because it was a gift from a female ex-lover with whom she doesn’t get along, said Muskogee County sheriff’s deputy George Roberson. I still can’t figure out what her ex-lover’s gender has to do with anything. Weird. But back to puppies. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/110 "2009-06-22T21:20:02Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Yeah, they also need to be charged with Wasting Ammunition and Being Horrible Shots. Ten shots with a .22 to kill a puppy? Ha ha! I believe these are only crimes in Minnesota and Texas. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/111 "2009-06-22T21:29:54Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’m saying it takes a certain person to do this. I’m not weighing in on the value one animal’s life or another. I am. Chickens are raised for food, dogs are raised for companionship and service. If you truly see no difference between them, then in my opinion, you have some wiring problems in your brain. People who torture animals, as we all know, have a propensity to go on to torture people. Not a person on this board who gave the ‘meh, chicken, puppy, no difference’ response to this situation likely have the courage to kill either. I am not ecstatic about chickens or cows being killed, but such is the cycle of life as deemed by society in general. We have food animals, we have companion animals and we have wild animals. Distinct classes with distinct permissions and regulations therefore. Simple. Further, at least in America, dogs are not on the food chain. You cannot legally buy dog at a butcher, you will not see it on a menu. As soon as you can breed a search and rescue chicken or a drug sniffing cow, then we’ll talk about how killing one is no different from killing the other. Until then, these people need mental help and to be locked up. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/112 "2009-06-22T22:31:33Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Not a person on this board who gave the ‘meh, chicken, puppy, no difference’ response to this situation likely have the courage to kill either. :rolleyes: Either you missed the bit where I mentioned growing up on a farm, or you know absolutely nothing about farm kids. Let’s just say that if a dog needed putting down, we didn’t pay a vet to do it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/113 "2009-06-22T23:34:08Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > I would not agree with rendering a human’s fat for soap ITT: people who aren’t Tyler Durden. Tyler Durdan would know human fat makes the best soap. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/114 "2009-06-23T00:06:29Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Either you missed the bit where I mentioned growing up on a farm, or you know absolutely nothing about farm kids. Let’s just say that if a dog needed putting down, we didn’t pay a vet to do it. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/115 "2009-06-23T01:59:13Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I saw the thread title while still trying to wake up this morning. I thought it said Obama, not Oklahoma, and thought, “Oh, what _now_?” I’m almost disappointed it wasn’t. I also thought it said “Obama Couple Kills Puppy, Tans Hide”. I thought it was something about one of those Fox Noise stories, like the thing about the Terrorist Fist Bump. Maybe a big “(RO)” would have helped. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/116 "2009-06-23T06:45:51Z")
I grew up on a remote cattle ranch. Nobody thought much about deliberately inflicting pain (branding cattle) or rendering them sexless through castration. I have killed plenty of animals with my own hands. When I grew older and left the ranch, at some point I eschewed all that and became a vegetarian. Couldn’t bear the thought of killing an animal. But then one day I read somewhere that “the problem is that human food consists entirely of souls” … and I realized it was true. Whether it was plant beings or fish beings or yeast beings or mammal beings or fungus beings or cephalopod beings, we kill and eat other living things. That’s what our food is. Other forms of living things. That’s the problem. Accordingly, I realized my personal problem was my lack of respect for the beings that I was constantly killing and eating. There was no way I could abstain from killing other beings, vegetarianism was just kidding myself. (Yeah, I know, I could go ovolactovarian or something and stayed alive, become a Jain and worn a cloth over my mouth to keep from killing invisible bugs in the air and never take antibiotics, that’s anti-life … not an option.) Since then, when I kill something, I thank it for giving up its life to sustain me. I assure it that I will go the same way when my time comes, changed into food for some other life form. I was working as a sport salmon guide a couple years ago. The clients thought I was nuts, standing in the little boat with the four guys from Idaho or New York City or somewhere, thanking some awesome salmon I’d just killed for giving up its life to make food for humans. I caught some strange looks, but it was Alaska and Alaska guides are supposed to be strange … To return to the OP, of course I dislike the lack of respect for the animal. All beings deserve respect on my planet. Part of the professed outrage is from something else, though. To explain what it is, a story. Through a series of misunderstandings and coincidences, I ended up as a crewman on a purse seiner fishing for herring in the Bering Sea. Of course we listened to the radio. We got the news it was the time of the annual baby seal outrage festival. Newscrews and cameras and Brigitte Bardot and the whole jamboree. I got to thinking of the hundred tons of herring we’d caught in a single set of the net. Maybe 15 herring per kg, 15,000 herring per tonne, in a few hours we had killed one and a half million living beings for human food. And I remember thinking there on the boat, “Man, it’s a good thing that herring don’t have big, soft eyes like baby seals and puppies and such. Otherwise, the ship would be covered with protesters and news cameras calling us mass murderers.” That’s the “big, soft eyes” effect, and it applies to puppies, baby seals, and in some measure most baby animals. Most people don’t care that I killed a million slimy, smelly fish. They’re not cute. They don’t have big soft eyes. They don’t look adorable as a backdrop for Ms. Bardot. That bothers me. I don’t like that it’s OK to kill some and not others based on whether they have cute eyes that look sooo adorable … and the herring must find it cruel and unusual punishment. A final story. For a while I fished commercially for salmon off the Northwest Coast of the US. To me, salmon are separate from all other fish, partly because they rule both the land and the sea, and a host of other reasons. Anyway, I read about what one tribe of native americans did, and we adopted the same practice. Salmon were a huge and crucial foodstuff for the Northwest Coast people. This was especially true of the inland villages on the rivers. If the salmon didn’t show up in their river, they couldn’t go to sea to find them … they went hungry. Accordingly, they respected and venerated the salmon. The custom was that when the first fish was caught and brought ashore, it was formally invited to be the guest of honor at a big party in the village. It was placed on a plank and carried into the village with noise and shouting, where the people commented on its beauty and spoke of its noble qualities. Then, of course, they cooked it and ate it … yum yum. They danced, because the salmon miraculously had returned once again to feed them. And they carefully saved all of the salmon bones, from nose to tail. Then they assembled the bones. They put them back together in order on the plank that had brought the salmon from the river to the village. They carried it back down to the river. They thanked the salmon for coming to the party. They asked the salmon to tell all its cousin brothers and sisters about the wonderful village on the river, and how they danced into the night, and what great parties they throw. Then they placed the board in the river, with the nose of the salmon pointing downstream. They wished it well on its journey. They pushed the board under the water so the current could make the bones dance and spin away, and the salmon could swim downstream and greet its incoming relatives … Anyhow, I do understand that there are castes of animals in most societies. I do understand the big soft eyes effect, I’m not immune to it. But at the end of the day, in my world, I know that I am of no more essential worth than a salmon, or a carrot. A trout doesn’t trump a housefly. I apologize to carrots and thank them, just like salmon. We’re all just living beings that are born to die, and while waiting for that, some of us eat the others, because living souls are our food … ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/117 "2009-06-23T12:21:51Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Either you missed the bit where I mentioned growing up on a farm, or you know absolutely nothing about farm kids. Let’s just say that if a dog needed putting down, we didn’t pay a vet to do it. I did miss that, and I know plenty about farm kids, my first job was on a farm of sorts. I’d hazard a guess though that you didn’t pump 10 rounds into an otherwise healthy puppy just to skin it for a belt, nor would you. I hope. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/118 "2009-06-23T17:07:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well I have three cats who I haven’t skinned. 😉 > > I don’t know where you got the idea that I think skinning puppies is good. I just take it a step farther and say that all skinning of animals is bad. If skinning a puppy is illegal so should skinning an ermine be. > > So the question is not about whether _I_ or **miller** object to animal cruelty, it’s whether those arguing another position do. Do you object to animal cruelty or do object to canine cruelty? > > It seems like a lot of people here care only because it was a puppy. In that case it shows they don’t give a fuck about animal cruelty, they only care because it was a puppy. > > I eat meat, so there is some inherent cruelty involved in that, but more parts of the animals I eat than just their skins are used. > > I don’t think you should torture and kill a puppy, I just think it’s hypocritical to have laws for animal cruelty that only apply to cute and cuddly sentimental animals. Sorry to respond late… I got to this post and haven’t continued to read the thread. I never got the idea that you personally liked the idea of skinning puppies. So far I follow your logic. The problem is you’re making TOO MUCH sense, haha. So now, being a meat eating/sneaker wearing person myself, I’m forced to think about this and find a way to justify my lifestyle and ‘frown upon’ the shit-head who shot the puppy. I look forward to reading the rest of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/119 "2009-06-23T18:09:17Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > I am. Chickens are raised for food, dogs are raised for companionship and service. If you truly see no difference between them, then in my opinion, you have some wiring problems in your brain. People who torture animals, as we all know, have a propensity to go on to torture people. Not a person on this board who gave the ‘meh, chicken, puppy, no difference’ response to this situation likely have the courage to kill either. I am not ecstatic about chickens or cows being killed, but such is the cycle of life as deemed by society in general. We have food animals, we have companion animals and we have wild animals. Distinct classes with distinct permissions and regulations therefore. Simple. > > Further, at least in America, dogs are not on the food chain. You cannot legally buy dog at a butcher, you will not see it on a menu. > > As soon as you can breed a search and rescue chicken or a drug sniffing cow, then we’ll talk about how killing one is no different from killing the other. > > Until then, these people need mental help and to be locked up. I know what you mean. I never knew a cow, other than the one’s I’ve eaten. That’s not to say I couldn’t form a bond with one. Pigs can be food and pets in the west. Where does one draw the line if there even is one? That’s why I asked about humans. To kind of say; maybe there’s a proverbial line and if humans get a pass, why shouldn’t some animals. However that was answered by it being completely counter productive and not in an individual human’s interest, (as the tables could turn on them). Don’t get me wrong, I LOVED my cats, (before they both passed away at ripe old age), and they had a kickass life. I just can’t say I’m in a place where I can draw that line of distinction. If there was a logical reason to differentiate the animals that the law protects and the ones it doesn’t, I would be the first on board because I hate people who do crap like this too. I just don’t think there’s a method in measuring one life’s worth over another’s. good stories **intention** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346/120 "2009-06-23T18:22:35Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Maybe the intent was to shoot it only once, but the first shot was not a clean kill? Surely in that situation it would be _worse_ to not finish it off as quickly as possible? A 6 week old puppy weighs like 4 or 5 lbs. No I do not buy they were trying to be merciful. It was a sick and depraved act. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oklahoma-couple-kills-puppy-tans-hide/500346.md?page=7)