# Olberman reports leak of draft Iraq Commission report. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505 "2006-10-15T06:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/1 "2006-10-15T06:32:42Z")
On _Countdown_ with Keith Olberman Friday night he reported that a draft copy of the report by the Iraq Commission headed by James Baker had been leaked to the New York Sun. New Yorkers, what sort of paper is the Sun? Straight news? Sensationalist? Conservative? According to Olberman the draft had only two recommendations. One was to abandon the democracy in Iraq project and negotiate with the insurgents for a cease fire. This sounds a little hokey because I don’t know that there is any one central group with which to negotiate. The second recommendation in the draft was to redeploy our military out of Iraq and use containment. I’ve looked and not seen anything about this elsewhere, including the NY Sun’s website. I don’t know that there is a debate here but has anyone seen anything about this and what would you think of them if the recommendations mentioned happen to really be those that the report will contain? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/2 "2006-10-15T06:35:29Z")
In the words of the daughter of the mayor of River City, “Ye Gods.” I thought I was in GD. In any case, it’s a question but not one with a factual answer. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/3 "2006-10-15T12:09:52Z")
Here’s the Sun piece: [Baker’s Panel Rules Out Iraq Victory](http://www.nysun.com/article/41371) > [@](#): > > Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by a secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, “Stability First” and “Redeploy and Contain,” both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term. > > More telling, however, is the ruling out of two options last month. One advocated minor fixes to the current war plan but kept intact the long-term vision of democracy in Iraq with regular elections. The second proposed that coalition forces focus their attacks only on Al Qaeda and not the wider insurgency. > … > Both option papers would compel America to open dialogue with Syria and Iran, two rogue states that Iraqi leaders and American military commanders say are providing arms and funds to Iraq’s insurgents. “Stabilizing Iraq will be impossible without greater cooperation from Iran and Syria,” the “Stability First” paper says. That recommendation to talk with Iran and Syria will be ignored, or at best botched, until 2008. No matter the other details, that’ll keep our strategic pooch well and truly screwed. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/4 "2006-10-15T13:04:59Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] In the words of the daughter of the mayor of River City, “Ye Gods.” I thought I was in GD. In any case, it’s a question but not one with a factual answer. [/QUOTE] It is now. Moved from GQ to GD. **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/5 "2006-10-15T14:12:21Z")
What are you doubting? That James Baker is the head of a bi-partisan Iraq Commission that is going to recommend sweeping changes to the current Administration Policy on Iraq after the election? There is [litttle doubt about](http://www.slate.com/id/2151218) that. > **[Is he hurting Bush now to help him later?](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/10/is-he-hurting-bush-now-to-help-him-later.html)** > > Former Secretary of State James Baker appeared on This Week With George Stephanopoulos on Sunday to talk about his new book, Work Hard, Study … And... Are you doubting that Baker’s Commission is going to say something shocking? At the very least, He seems to be floating a trial balloon publicly calling for 1 to 1 talks with the Insurgents (the U.S. has been doing this at a low level for some time). However, it might be the Democratic Members of the Commission leaking to influence the election… I am not sure what we are debating - I am not being chesty - I am fascinated by this topic and wanted to start an IMHO thread on A. what you think the report will and B. Should say - but I knew it would end up here. It has been speculated that the Iraq Commission will call for U.S. direct talks with Iran and Syria to help quell the insurgency - to me that would be the big surprising news. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/6 "2006-10-15T14:16:50Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] One was to abandon the democracy in Iraq project and negotiate with the insurgents for a cease fire. [/QUOTE] It’s hard to tell from the short article, but I _think_ the commission is talking about something like this: [Iraqis call for five-man junta to end the anarchy](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2404311,00.html): > [@](#): > > The proposal, which is being widely discussed in political and intelligence circles in Baghdad, is to replace the Shi’ite-led government of Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, with a regime capable of imposing order and confronting the sectarian militias leading the country to the brink of civil war. > … > “Nobody in Iraq has the military power to mount a traditional coup, but there could be a change in government, done in a backroom, which could see a general brought in to run the ministry of defence or the interior,” Cordesman said. > > “It could be regarded as a more legitimate government than the present one as long it doesn’t favour one faction.” Baker can’t be so deluded as to think that ‘ **Paris Peace Talks II, the Baghdad Edition** ’ is a viable option, can he? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/7 "2006-10-15T14:42:27Z")
It might be useful to wait until the report is actually issued before debating it. Don’t expect to see anything official until after the election. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/8 "2006-10-15T15:03:33Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] It might be useful to wait until the report is actually issued before debating it. [/QUOTE] Why do you hate the trial balloon system? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/9 "2006-10-15T15:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] It might be useful to wait until the report is actually issued before debating it. Don’t expect to see anything official until after the election. [/QUOTE] On _The Daily Show_, Baker said the report wouldn’t be released until after the electtion so as to avoid charges of releasing it for political purposes. Jon Stewart immediately responded, “Or witholding it for politcal purposes.” which Baker ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/10 "2006-10-15T15:16:49Z")
“Redeply and Contain” sound suspiciously like something President Bush would characterize as “Cut and Run.” Will the Iraq Commission be tarred with the “defeatist” brush, or will some Republicans try to explain why they were against “Cut and Run” before they were for it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/11 "2006-10-15T16:01:49Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] On _The Daily Show_, Baker said the report wouldn’t be released until after the electtion so as to avoid charges of releasing it for political purposes. Jon Stewart immediately responded, “Or witholding it for politcal purposes.” which Baker ignored. [/QUOTE] Well, I think **RX** ’s post above is a good example of why it shouldn’t have been released before the election. He’s complaining about actions that haven’t taken place over a report that he hasn’t read. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/12 "2006-10-15T16:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Well, I think **RX** ’s post above is a good example of why it shouldn’t have been released before the election. He’s complaining about actions that haven’t taken place over a report that he hasn’t read. [/QUOTE] A problem that could have actually been _avoided_ if the full report was made public before the election. I also think that this stuff is probably pretty accurate. if this thing actually contained anything useful to the Pubs, it would have been fed to Fox News already. I don’t really have much of a problem with these recommendations. We’re going to have to kiss some “terrorist” ass sooner or later. It might as well be sooner. The only way out of Iraq is to puss out, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/13 "2006-10-15T16:33:47Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] A problem that could have actually been _avoided_ if the full report was made public before the election. [/quote] Yeah, I’m sure both sides would withold political posturing over the report. :dubious: > [@](#): > > I also think that this stuff is probably pretty accurate. Of course you do. [quoteif this thing actually contained anything useful to the Pubs, it would have been fed to Fox News already.[/quote] That’s something about which we will never know. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/14 "2006-10-15T16:44:48Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Yeah, I’m sure both sides would withold political posturing over the report. :dubious: [/quote] That’s beside the point. Your complaint was that people were debating over a report without having the full text. If the full report were already made available, you would have nothing to complain about. The debate might still be political, but so what? At least it would be fully informed. Hiding information always appears more shady than making it available. > [@](#): > > Of course you do. Don’t you? Do you think there are any better options than what is reported in the Sun story? Do you think that the REAL recommendations are being suppressed? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/15 "2006-10-15T16:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=Rufus Xavier] “Redeply and Contain” sound suspiciously like something President Bush would characterize as “Cut and Run.” Will the Iraq Commission be tarred with the “defeatist” brush, or will some Republicans try to explain why they were against “Cut and Run” before they were for it? [/QUOTE] Actually, I’m pretty sure that “Redeploy and Contain” is what was done from 1991-2003. Also known as the “Liberal Pussy Faggot” strategy. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/16 "2006-10-15T17:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] New Yorkers, what sort of paper is the Sun? Straight news? Sensationalist? Conservative? [/QUOTE] I’m not a New Yorker, but according to [this,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Sun) the _Sun_ is definitely conservative, perhaps even neoconservative: > [@](#): > > The paper’s owners are a group of New York City businessmen, as well as the paper’s two founding editors. The paper’s staff include many well-known political conservatives. Major backers of the paper include Bruce Kovner, a billionaire financier who is also a backer of the conservative Manhattan Institute and American Enterprise Institute, and Roger Hertog, a trustee of the American Enterprise Institute. The newspaper’s president and editor-in-chief is Seth Lipsky, formerly editor of The Forward, a Jewish-oriented weekly, and its managing editor is Ira Stoll. > > The Sun was created to establish a pro-free market conservative broadsheet in New York City to rival the New York Times. One of the founders of the Sun, in fact, previously established and edited a website devoted to issuing daily critiques of the Times. Like the Washington Times, which was launched as a conservative rival to the Washington Post, the Sun is close to the Republican Party and conservative intellectuals. Especially on foreign policy issues the Sun’s editorial opinions resemble those of the neoconservative The Weekly Standard magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/17 "2006-10-15T18:04:27Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] That’s something about which we will never know. [/QUOTE] Of course we know; that’s what Fox does, what it’s _for_. It’s nothing more than the Pravda of the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/18 "2006-10-15T20:35:21Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’m not a New Yorker, but according to [this,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Sun) the _Sun_ is definitely conservative, perhaps even neoconservative: [/QUOTE] So this leak was quite likely deliberate by someone on the conservative side of the Baker-Hamilton commission. I wonder why. Maybe to get the public ready for the denoument to the grand debacle. Either we form an Iraq government from followers of the Ayatolla Sadr, or we adopt Murtha’s suggestion under a new name and painted elephant gray? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/19 "2006-10-15T20:37:22Z")
Redeploy away! Redeploy away! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505/20 "2006-10-15T20:56:18Z")
**INCARIARDI** – It’s not cut and run if a Republican does it. They prefer to call it, “advancing The War Against Terra in a new direction.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olberman-reports-leak-of-draft-iraq-commission-report/376505.md?page=2)