# Olbermann & Matthews NOT chairing debates or election night on MSNBC **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633 "2008-09-08T16:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/21 "2008-09-08T19:12:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Did you swallow Der Trihs? I think it’s backing up on you. Hey, dude, guess which candidate wants to go after the people who actually attacked us and which candidate thinks it had something to do with Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/22 "2008-09-08T19:13:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You say milked, I say keeping it in the fore where it belongs. It’s interesting that during the Democratic convention there was no mention of radical Islam. Do you not find that odd? We’re not at war with Islam. Obama mentioned bin Laden in his speech. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/23 "2008-09-08T19:17:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think we ALL should stay reminded of it. Personally, I feel entirely qualified to decide how much reminding I need or don’t need on issues like this. Video tributes and similar stuff from politicians falls directly under the heading of “shit I don’t need.” Despite the unsuitability of Olbermann’s comments, I think very few people have ever needed to be reminded of what happened. Much more often, it’s been used as a cudgel by politicians. > [@](#): > > That and the beheadings. Heh. Phrased this way, it almost sounds like you forgot for a second. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/24 "2008-09-08T19:26:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think we ALL should stay reminded of it. That and the beheadings. We should never loose sight of it. You said some need to be reminded more than others. Who did you mean? > [@](#): > > What, this wasn’t a national event? No, it wasn’t; it was a Republican event. It was their attempt to promote their agenda and candidates to the detriment of the Democrats’ agenda and candidates. It’s true that the nominating process will have great impact on the future of the country. The conventions have ceased to have any role in the decision-making process, and are essentially boosterism for one party or the other. And neither party has such a lock on the truth that their ideals can be said to represent the country as a whole. > [@](#): > > By the way, it is both correct and customary to capitalize “American”. Thanks. I’ll stand by most of my grammar and spelling, but I never remember the rules on this. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/25 "2008-09-08T19:27:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nothing except publicly rape the corpses of 9/11 victims for personal political gain. That footage is snuff porn. It’s indefensible to show it as entertainment. Is it similarly off-limits for the Democrats to show Katrina footage? Be honest now. Personally, I’m of the opinion that both can and should be shown, and the issues raised by them can then be debated out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/26 "2008-09-08T19:28:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Hey, dude, guess which candidate wants to go after the people who actually attacked us and which candidate thinks it had something to do with Iraq. Who? And just to remind you, George Bush isn’t running. But feel free to tell me who and supply quotes that prove your assertion is correct. This may take you twice as long as you think because you’ll probably have to look at McCain and Biden, as they both voted to authorize action in Iraq. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We’re not at war with Islam. Obama mentioned bin Laden in his speech. And there’s the rub. We are at war with RADICAL Islam. (Funny how you left out that one word and attempted to mischaracterize what I said.) Why are we at war with them? Because they are at war with us. If you need pictorial proof I’d be happy to provide it for you. Your omission of “radical” when describing the part of Islam I said we are at war with sums up the left’s problem perfectly. And that is one reason why you and your ilk are going to lose the election. The good news is that you and your families will be safer, whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/27 "2008-09-08T19:32:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Personally, I feel entirely qualified to decide how much reminding I need or don’t need on issues like this. Video tributes and similar stuff from politicians falls directly under the heading of “shit I don’t need.” Despite the unsuitability of Olbermann’s comments, I think very few people have ever needed to be reminded of what happened. Much more often, it’s been used as a cudgel by politicians. I’m not so sure about that. I think it’s easy for the horror and enormity of the event to leave us. That’s good for us as a rule, as human beings. It also tends to foster letting the guard down. > [@Marley23](#): > > Heh. Phrased this way, it almost sounds like you forgot for a second. Touche. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/28 "2008-09-08T19:33:36Z")
[OT] On 9/11 itself, and the ensuing week, I never watched TV. I got home in late afternoon, and knew by then that all the TV stations would be doing was saying the same things over and over, and interviewing a victim’s third cousin’s dentist for his thoughts on the tragedy. So last night, I watched 3 hours of stuff on Discover Channel on 9/11. It was the first time I ever saw the footage of the plane flying into the tower, or the towers collapsing. Not because I needed reminding that it happened or why, but because I felt that now we were far enough removed that I could be told what happened in a fair depth of detail without a bunch of “news” people essentially masturbating on TV. This wasn’t politicians making hay of a tragedy; it was reporting the actual events. With that I had no trouble at all, even when Donald Rumsfeld showed up. He seems, btw, to have handled himself pretty well that day - better than Cheney. And Bush appears to have been out of the picture altogether until the evening. [/OT] ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/29 "2008-09-08T19:37:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Who needs to be reminded? Democrats? Do you honestly think they have forgotten about this? > > If this had been done in a history or news setting, or in some truly national event, then that would be one thing. But to show graphic footage of the deaths of thousands of people in an effort to get one american elected president, instead of another american, is despicable. Word. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/30 "2008-09-08T19:37:59Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You said some need to be reminded more than others. Who did you mean? Huh? That all of us should always remember. Those who might forget are those who need reminding. What’s so hard about this? > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > No, it wasn’t; it was a Republican event. It was their attempt to promote their agenda and candidates to the detriment of the Democrats’ agenda and candidates. A Republican event IS a national event. You know one of the country’s two dominant parties. And if the issues of realizing that people are trying to kill us and defending the U.S. against radical Islam work to the detriment of the Democratic party, that’s not my problem. Unless they win, of course. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It’s true that the nominating process will have great impact on the future of the country. The conventions have ceased to have any role in the decision-making process, and are essentially boosterism for one party or the other. And neither party has such a lock on the truth that their ideals can be said to represent the country as a whole. Agreed. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Thanks. I’ll stand by most of my grammar and spelling, but I never remember the rules on this. Glad to help. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/31 "2008-09-08T19:41:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, fuck Keith Olberman. I’d like to hit him in the face with balsa wood bat filled with loose dog shit. I watched most of the nights on MSNBC. It was annoying how he ALWAYS had to try to make some partisan point, denigrating something Republican. A few times when he would ask Matthews or Brokaw a question you could almost see the annoyance of having to field something that was inappropriate or out of the blue. I kinda like Matthews, and I had no problem with his contributions. Some of it was partisan, but in a healthy, critical analysis kind of way. Brokaw, I think, tried to remain middle-of-the-road, and did a pretty good job of it. But I think his bias has been clearly established and should not moderate a debate. Not that I mind all that much if he does. I wonder if you feel the same way about Brit Hume, the fox news anchor who hosts Fox News’ [Special Report](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Report_with_Brit_Hume)–advertised as a roundup of daily news. He describes himself as a conservative Republican, yet that didn’t stop Fox from having him[host a debate among 2004 Democratic candidates](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/transcripts/090903debatetext.html). Funny how it’s only complaints about “liberals” that the supposed-liberal news-media takes seriously. I’m still waiting for someone to name the left wing equivalents to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilley, Brit Hume, Michael Tucker, and Glen Beck–i.e. liberals who are allotted a similar media megaphone to pontificate with. The right makes one complaint about Olberman and Matthews and their demoted, but lowly-rated loudmouths like Glen Beck and Michael Tucker continue to get paid by this supposed liberal media, and Brit Hume is hailed as a neutral anchor. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/32 "2008-09-08T19:41:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not so sure about that. I think it’s easy for the horror and enormity of the event to leave us. That’s good for us as a rule, as human beings. It also tends to foster letting the guard down. Yes, because living in constant fear sucks and as a rule people don’t like doing it. It’s also generally unnecessary. A few legit security measures would probably do much more to prevent terrorist attacks than any kind of constant reminders ever could, but there’s little interest in those - perhaps because nobody sees much political benefit in them. And the few constant reminders that do exist, like airport security, are roundly despised and also widely mocked for being useless. And I’ll add another vote in the “not at war with Islam, radical or otherwise” category. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/33 "2008-09-08T19:54:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Huh? That all of us should always remember. Those who might forget are those who need reminding. What’s so hard about this? Do Republicans need reminding? They were the ones in the hall, watching the presentation, after all. > [@](#): > > A Republican event IS a national event. You know one of the country’s two dominant parties. By a “national event”, I meant one that represents the entire nation, not just one party out of two. And I specifically exclude those occasions when the two parties are in contest, and one promotes itself at the expense of the other. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/34 "2008-09-08T19:54:31Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > I guess that’s what the Dope is for. And The Daily Show / Colbert Report. It’s a sad, sad, day when the best analysis comes from a comedy show. Or perhaps it’s just a meta-commentary on the current state of politics. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/35 "2008-09-08T20:24:07Z")
**magellan** , I think the difference between you folks and the liberals is that you view terrorism as a war, while we view it more as a law enforcement issue. And I’ve tried Googling this, but am not finding it, so maybe someone can help me out, but I seem to remember some time within the past half year or so, there were findings that better results had been obtained in those parts of the world where a law enforcement approach had been taken to anti-terrorism activities. You give these people too much credit, and you think they are more numerous than they are. Yes, a lot of people over there now hate us, but a lot of that has been the direct result of our own actions in Iraq, and even so, they’re no more likely to act on it than you are to fly over there and bomb Riyadh or Tehran. There are lots of haters, but not nearly so many terrorists, and few of _them_ have the means to commit acts like those of 9/11. Pipe bombs and car bombs are more their speed, and while they are horrible, they’re not something to go to war over, any more than we would declare war on Detroit if someone set off a pipe bomb there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/36 "2008-09-08T20:40:20Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > **magellan** , I think the difference between you folks and the liberals is that you view terrorism as a war, while we view it more as a law enforcement issue. And I’ve tried Googling this, but am not finding it, so maybe someone can help me out, but I seem to remember some time within the past half year or so, there were findings that better results had been obtained in those parts of the world where a law enforcement approach had been taken to anti-terrorism activities. Personally, I’m of the mind that relying solely on either approach is unnecessarily limiting, and indeed many notable successes in the last few years have come from efforts from the LEC and entities like the Treasury Department. So I’m not sure that many conservatives will fault law enforcement. They will, though, point out its limitations. Law enforcement can’t penetrate a country where the state apparatus has been taken over by forces in active cooperation with terrorists - like Afghanistan. Nor is it helpful in places like Somalia where the centralized government and associated law enforcement functions do not exist in any meaningful way. I don’t think very many people here will dispute these points or the necessity of military force sometimes - Afghanistan remains an action with broad political support. So we’re just arguing over the scale of operations at that point, aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/37 "2008-09-08T20:40:23Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Is it similarly off-limits for the Democrats to show Katrina footage? Be honest now. > > Personally, I’m of the opinion that both can and should be shown, and the issues raised by them can then be debated out in the open. You know, I hadn’t thought of that. It’s an interesting question that I’m not sure I can answer offhand. Do you feel that the two situations are comparable? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/38 "2008-09-08T20:47:39Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Is it similarly off-limits for the Democrats to show Katrina footage? Be honest now. The Democrats showed people dying? I think they only showed the aftermath. > [@](#): > > Personally, I’m of the opinion that both can and should be shown, and the issues raised by them can then be debated out in the open. Why not show the beheading videos too, then? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/39 "2008-09-08T20:49:39Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > You know, I hadn’t thought of that. It’s an interesting question that I’m not sure I can answer offhand. Do you feel that the two situations are comparable? Yep. You’re stating that there is an issue that you’ll either handle better or that the other guys will screw up - and illustrating the fact by displaying death and destruction. Now, whether the charges are fair or not doesn’t change the fact that I think that it’s absolutely fine that they be raised and then discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633/40 "2008-09-08T20:51:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Who? And just to remind you, George Bush isn’t running. Obama wants to stop wasting resources n Iraq and send them to Afhganistan where the “enemy” (what there is of it) actually lives. McCain wants to dawdle in Iraq for 100 years sucking up resources. > [@](#): > > And there’s the rub. We are at war with RADICAL Islam. (Funny how you left out that one word and attempted to mischaracterize what I said.) Why are we at war with them? Because they are at war with us. If you need pictorial proof I’d be happy to provide it for you. Your omission of “radical” when describing the part of Islam I said we are at war with sums up the left’s problem perfectly. And that is one reason why you and your ilk are going to lose the election. The good news is that you and your families will be safer, whether you like it or not. We’re not at war with _any_ kind of Islam. As a matter of fact, we’re not at war at all. At most, we’re trying to track down some criminals. Islam, “radical” or otherwise, is neither here nor there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olbermann-matthews-not-chairing-debates-or-election-night-on-msnbc/462633.md?page=3)