# Old arcade games with surprising depth **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412 "2016-06-15T12:04:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/21 "2016-06-15T20:12:10Z")
Swashbuckler for Apple II. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/22 "2016-06-15T20:46:19Z")
Pitfall might seem simplistic by modern standards, but becomes a lot more impressive when you realize that the entire game fit in 4 kilobytes. That’s an awfully varied and detailed map to fit into that tight a space, and that’s before you even include the game code. Of course, it was all pseudorandom, but what does that matter? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/23 "2016-06-15T21:18:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, I never understood why you’d have buttons for directional movement rather than a joystick. Because video games were new and user interfaces weren’t even a word. Eugene Jarvis wanted to create a game that was difficult and he realized that, given the limitations of the hardware and software, an easy way to increase the difficulty was to increase the number of buttons. In **Robotron:208** 4, he went the other way and created a very simple control, with as much processing power as possible spent on throwing as many moving enemies at you as computationally possible. And then there was **Joust** , which I don’t know if it had depth, but was endlessly replayable and, like Wizard of Wor, you could play single, competitively, or cooperatively. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/24 "2016-06-15T21:23:00Z")
**Moon Lander** , of course. Was there any way to actually play a long time at this one? Seemed to me that even if you were Neil Armstrong and landed your ship with the least amount of used fuel possible, you still would have, at most, 3 rounds. (Whatever fuel you ended one round with, you started another round with, plus a bonus. The bonus, however, was never enough to compensate you (well, ME) for the fuel expended the previous go-around.) (Please note this is a 30 year-old memory here…) ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/25 "2016-06-15T21:53:09Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I remember playing a game called “Lode Runner” on an old Apple II, and there were different configurations for well over 100 screens…I think I’d gotten past 150, even, with no defined end or pattern in sight. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Lode Runner was one of the first games where you could design your own levels, IIRC. I spent many happy hours making more own levels for that one. Loderunner and [Aztec](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_(video_game)) were my favourite games until Ultima III game along. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/26 "2016-06-15T22:25:34Z")
Rogue and roguelikes, while not arcade games, are infinitely playable. Everything about them is different every time you play. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/27 "2016-06-15T22:40:59Z")
The same year that Lode Runner was released saw my first “toolbox” game come to light: [Pinball Construction Set](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball_Construction_Set). … Though we’re wandering from the arcades to the personal computer realm, but still within that early-80s timeline… ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/28 "2016-06-16T00:26:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Heh. That’s social commentary that I totally missed as a kid. Was that actually what they were going for, or just how games were designed back then? **I don’t think Pac Man was actually about the futility of trying to fight ghosts** or Donkey Kong about how you’ll never actually save the girl. And if you do, she’ll just get kidnapped by a giant monkey again. **Bolding mine.** You sure about [Pac Man](https://i.imgur.com/fOgRnwS.gif)? ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/29 "2016-06-16T00:31:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > **Moon Lander** , of course. Was there any way to actually play a long time at this one? Seemed to me that even if you were Neil Armstrong and landed your ship with the least amount of used fuel possible, you still would have, at most, 3 rounds. (Whatever fuel you ended one round with, you started another round with, plus a bonus. The bonus, however, was never enough to compensate you (well, ME) for the fuel expended the previous go-around.) > > (Please note this is a 30 year-old memory here…) I think is was called Lunar Lander ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/30 "2016-06-16T00:45:20Z")
I know it wasn’t correct, and yes, you are right. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/31 "2016-06-16T01:02:35Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > **Bolding mine.** You sure about [Pac Man](https://i.imgur.com/fOgRnwS.gif)? Love it! ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/32 "2016-06-16T01:46:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Qix was a classic. Move your cursor to make rectangles but avoid the Stix and the Sparx, move slower to get more points, split the Stix, lots of possibilities. There were some pornograhic versions of Qix, where removing the rectangles would reveal a nekkid la-a-a-a-ady. I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/33 "2016-06-16T14:27:31Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > “Wizard Needs Food Badly” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_kQNloVCI8s/hqdefault.jpg "Warrior Need Food | Robot Chicken | Adult Swim") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kQNloVCI8s) “That never gets old” ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/34 "2016-06-16T16:37:35Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > There were some pornograhic versions of Qix, where removing the rectangles would reveal a nekkid la-a-a-a-ady. > > I’ve heard. I obtained a shareware version of that for my PC back in the 90s. It was Asian in origin, based on the pictures revealed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/35 "2016-06-16T17:12:46Z")
\*\*Wizardry \*\*offered the first first-person perspective that I remember in a game. Then there were ways to take advantage of (or be screwed by) the 8-bit limitations of the arcade games. In \*\*Galaga \*\*you could leave one of the bugs alive at the end of the round, have him make 255+ shots, whereupon he stops shooting. Once he had stopped, kill him and the rest of the bugs won’t shoot for the rest of the game. \*\*Robotron \*\*had issues like this as well. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/36 "2016-06-16T20:00:10Z")
I recall thoroughly enjoying Zaxxon because each level scrolled across the screen at an angle instead of just left to right. It made some of the flying maneuvers pretty difficult to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/37 "2016-06-16T22:19:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Then there were ways to take advantage of (or be screwed by) the 8-bit limitations of the arcade games. In Galaga you could leave one of the bugs alive at the end of the round, have him make 255+ shots, whereupon he stops shooting. Once he had stopped, kill him and the rest of the bugs won’t shoot for the rest of the game. Robotron had issues like this as well. Similarly, there was the end of Centipede. On level 1, you had a single 12-segment centipede to fight. On level 2, you had a total of two: One detached head, and a connected 11-segment 'pede. And so on until you got to level 12, where you didn’t have any connected segments at all, just 12 separate heads. And what happened if you beat that level, too? Well, of course, it tried to start level 13, spawning heads out one at a time until it ran out of segments before it ran out of heads, and promptly crashed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/38 "2016-06-16T22:42:04Z")
I was… pretty good… at Centipede and don’t remember this happening to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/39 "2016-06-16T23:42:17Z")
Well, I only managed it once, so it’s possible that it was a completely unrelated glitch that crashed it, but that sure seems like a logical place for a glitch to occur. And I almost certainly played a slightly different version than you (I had a very obscure model of Atari console), which might also make a difference. What happened to the 'pede segments on yours when you got to level 13 and beyond? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412/40 "2016-06-17T02:53:51Z")
God, I don’t remember, but the high score on this machine is in the millions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-arcade-games-with-surprising-depth/757412.md?page=3)