# old barn archetectural feature purpose **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 30, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280 "2011-10-30T14:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/21 "2011-10-30T18:12:40Z")
[Maybe this:](http://www.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/brief20.htm) > [@](#): > > Unlike historic residential, industrial and commercial buildings, barns generally have few openings for windows and doors. Yet the openings found in barns are important both to their functioning and to their appearance. Typically, large wagon doorways and openings to the hayloft are among the most striking features on barns. Not as prominent as these large openings, but important from a functional perspective, are the \*\*ventilator slits \*\*found on many barns. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/22 "2011-10-30T18:34:41Z")
Yes, I know your observation about the stuffing and/or joists behind the sliding doors suggests a non-ventilation use, but I wonder if the original purpose isn’t the current reason for their existence? Many construction allowances for future alteration merely nail or screw on a cover, but these seem to be made to easily slide open and closed, something more appropriate for a seasonal ventilation opening than a future expansion. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/23 "2011-10-30T18:54:13Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > That is Wisconsin? That is a cold place… > > Don’t see that down South. > > Need to see inside… > > Sure would like to see the inside… > > One really well made barn IMO… > > I think we have a lack of information at this point… > > YBMV Sounds like _some_body needs a road trip to Wisconsin! Brats, microbrews, a UW football game with a great farmer’s market beforehand, squeaky cheese curds, more microbrews… and you can look at a barn! Seriously, Old World Wisconsin is impressive. They don’t build barns (or General Stores) like they used to. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/24 "2011-10-30T18:56:13Z")
I would think small ventilation holes without the joists in them would be more efficient. They could very easily included a few more holes in walls for ventilation. It is possible that the small openings around the logs could be suitable for ventilation, but that would require the stuffing to be removed. Old World Wisconsin is pretty fastidious in their historic preservation, so I would expect the stuffing to be historically accurate (though not necessarily accurate to the original purpose when the barn was built). ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/25 "2011-10-30T19:06:54Z")
It could be the original purpose of the holes were ventilation, then later, the farmer thought he needed a second floor built and the holes were perfect for him. Or he originally built the holes in place without the means or money to complete the second floor, but knew he would at some time. SO he built the barn with the holes, used the holes for ventilation…sliding them open and closed as needed…and then later when he had more resources, put in the second floor joists. Note too, the the joists don’t need to slide all the way through the barn to be put in. You can just slide the end out one side of the barn a short distance, where the other end drops down into the inside of the barn. Then you just walk the whole thing out the door. Likewise putting a new one in, you walk it into the barn, lift and stick the log out the one hole, then move the other end into the other hole and pull it to where its sitting in both holes across the barn. purely speculation on my part, though, thats how I would do it. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/26 "2011-10-30T19:31:20Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I think the ones I saw open were fairly round, I didn’t see the inside to see if the joists were unhewn, round, or worked in someway. Maybe there aren’t joists in the holes, just wooden plugs. Is the barn still in use? I could see a barn full of animals needing ventilation to let the respirated air out, while the vents aren’t necessary without the animals, so they were plugged with wood. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/27 "2011-10-30T19:52:39Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Maybe there aren’t joists in the holes, just wooden plugs. Is the barn still in use? I could see a barn full of animals needing ventilation to let the respirated air out, while the vents aren’t necessary without the animals, so they were plugged with wood. Nope, definetly joists. I was in the building but only at a time before I noticed the outside covers. THere was a floor right above me, though I didn’t look closely at it to see the workmanship. THe person working the farm there referred to them as ‘joists’. Two cows were in the paddock(?) outside, and were presumably housed inside the barn during the night, but I don’t know that for sure. It looked fairly clean inside, I didn’t see cow shit anywhere, but I didn’t have access to the entire barn. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/28 "2011-10-30T20:02:57Z")
This is just a guess, but maybe they are there to keep water from soaking into the end grain and to allow the farmer to inspect and seal the ends. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/29 "2011-10-31T14:05:25Z")
but no real proof: 1. they are there to keep water from soaking into the end grain and to allow the farmer to inspect and seal the ends. 2. originally built the holes in place without the means or money to complete the second floor; using the holes for ventilation until the joists were in place 3. the small triangular areas around the logs could be small vents 4. they are removable joists that would allow increasing the height of the first floor when needed (possibly to aid in cooling in summer, keeping heat in during winter) I’m personally partial to #2 and #4 ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/30 "2011-10-31T14:22:24Z")
They are not for protecting the end grain exclusively, because sheathing right over the end grain would protect the end grain. During construction, someone consciously left the end grain of the joists exposed, then covered with a sliding wooden panel to access them. Some incredibly diligent wood worker might create the little doors to inspect the end grain and access the wood grain if they were aware that unprotected end grain of this species was susceptible to a particular critter/insect/disease. Even when sheathed over, insects might be able to get into the end grain and do their dirty work without anyone knowing. Based on how the barns are built (I’m impressed), it would not surprise me if the wood worker was keen on keeping an eye on the end grain of those particular timbers. The end grain of other timbers in the type of construction can be inspected. Again, if there were a disease or critter that the particular species/timber was susceptible to, and that species/timber was a key structural element (which it is, obviously), I’d love to win that battle and not sheath over them. Give me doors to be diligent to an extreme. This is spoken as a wood worker who does insane things during his projects because they make \*\*me \*\*sleep at night. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/31 "2011-10-31T14:29:38Z")
\*\*\*ABOVE (clockwise from left): A metal strap repair to an ancient barn timber; Richard and Mike closely inspect the old rafters; signs of beetle attack to the exposed end grain of a timber beam. * * * > **[Create your dream home on any budget | Real Homes](https://www.realhomes.com)** > > Real Homes: Create your dream home on any budget ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/32 "2011-10-31T14:34:39Z")
Oh, everyone is aware that end grain is vulnerable to wood -rotting fungi and wood destroying insects… right? Man, I would love to have met the guy that decided to be able to check on and care for the end grain of those timbers – my kind o’ guy! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/33 "2011-10-31T14:46:35Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Oh, everyone is aware that end grain is vulnerable to wood -rotting fungi and wood destroying insects… right? > > Man, I would love to have met the guy that decided to be able to check on and care for the end grain of those timbers – my kind o’ guy! This would be my guess. Those wooden beam may have originally stuck out through the siding, but began to degrade from rot or insects. The owner cut them off, and left the sliding covers for A) inspection, and B) to allow the ends to be exposed to to dry air. Removable sounds very unlikely, they would be too heavy and the structure would be weakened without them. ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/34 "2011-10-31T17:29:48Z")
Being able to inspect the end grain makes sense. It seems like this would be one of the most vulnerable and most important joints in the barn - if an end gets chewed out by insects or rot, the joist could fail under the weight of the hay harvest and crush livestock. In that sense the construction of the hayloft is probably more important than the construction of the roof - the roof only has to support shingles! Sigene, did you see how the sliders were assembled? I can’t tell from the photo, but is it possible that constructing sliding covers was the most efficient method the farmer had of covering the joist ends? I seem to recall that nails were very expensive at that point in time. It seems plausible that putting together sliders attached to the barn with nails or wooden pegs was more cost effective than nailing on a cover and then having to replace the nails every time they were pulled and inspected. Plus you’re more likely to actually get out there and do your inspections if it’s less work to get to the joist ends. (Nailed on covers would also have left more holes in the wood and therefore more access points for bugs every time they were removed, I wonder if that would have been a consideration as well.) ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/35 "2011-10-31T18:25:55Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Man, I would love to have met the guy that decided to be able to check on and care for the end grain of those timbers – my kind o’ guy! I agree, genius! Obviously someone who knows barn construction and where, rot, infestation, and structural failure might occur so he includes protection from the elements, easy access for ventilation, inspection and treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/36 "2011-10-31T19:47:59Z")
Look at the exposed end-grain damage in the barn to the left. One timber is exposed and not looking so good. Even covering that timber with siding/sheathing would not have stopped insect damage. The access point with doors allowed someone to treat or care for the end grain of the timber with whatever short-lived concoction they had on hand, or even manual cleaning with nothin’ more than one’s finger tips. Other notable details on the barn on the right: Tops on the sliding doors are rounded over, to encourage water runoff to run down and not into the top. Dry end grain is best. This guy nailed it. Keep it covered, dry but accessible. Keep in mind, too, that a truly proud builder/woodworker thinks beyond just their years on the planet. It was probably not about making the barn last for his lifetime, but about making it last for generations. . ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/37 "2011-10-31T19:55:42Z")
This barn has similar construction to my log cabin. If it wasn’t made of white cedar, the exposed ends of beams would have suffered considerable damage. My parents house has pine beam that extended out from the house to the edge of the eaves. Over 40+ years they’ve had considerable work done until they had finally been trimmed back under the siding, treated, sealed, and covered over with fascia. Even if this builder made a mistake by exposing the beams initially, he was smart enough to add these sliding doors instead of just nailing or pegging some boards over them. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/38 "2011-10-31T20:47:38Z")
Do we have any idea how old the sliding doors are? To my (untrained) eye, they look newer than the walls themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/39 "2011-10-31T21:48:26Z")
> [@FlyByNight512](#): > > Sigene, did you see how the sliders were assembled? I believe the top and bottom rails were nailed to the walls. THe bottom of the top piece was grooved (V shaped), and the top of the slider was trimmed into an inverted V to fit right into the top rail. I don’t know how the bottom was shaped if at all. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280/40 "2011-10-31T23:15:07Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Do we have any idea how old the sliding doors are? To my (untrained) eye, they look newer than the walls themselves. Only some of them do. I think those are replacements. Others look about the same age as the wall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-barn-archetectural-feature-purpose/601280.md?page=3)