# "Old Fashioned" Etiquette **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837 "2011-09-19T16:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/41 "2011-09-20T01:20:44Z")
I’ve been to more children’s funerals than I’d like and the parents almost always ask attendees to wear the child’s favourite colour. (I don’t, since I go in uniform, but I understand the sentiment.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/42 "2011-09-20T01:32:25Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > \ > > Frankly, I’d have been glad of an email or a phone call from my ungrateful niece and nephew (both in their 20s) last Christmas. I hand-knitting each of them an afghan, each taking more than a month of my evenings to complete. All I got from my niece when she happened to overhear me say 'afghan" to my mom was “I like my afghan.” No thanks, just that she liked it. And my charming nephew still hasn’t acknowledged it. I even emailed him and said “I assume you got it and I assume by your silence that you don’t like it. If so, please donate it to a homeless shelter where someone may appreciate it.” Still didn’t hear anything from him. Needless to say, neither one will get anything from me any more. [end rant]\ My brother-in-law and family haven’t been speaking to us for over two years now, but we have still given birthday and Christmas gifts to the two daughters (aged 16 and 13). I haven’t received a single thank-you (or acknowledgement) for any of them; I think my youngest niece’s next birthday present will be the last gift either of them get from us (just to even it up between the two of them). > [@Chronos](#): > > At an uncle’s funeral a few weeks ago, the request was that all the mourners wear either hunting clothes or Steelers colors. If The Rules say that that’s a taboo, then The Rules are wrong. It’s supposed to be a celebration of the person’s life. I think requests for funerals from the deceased or the mourning family supersede etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/43 "2011-09-20T01:39:14Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think requests for funerals from the deceased or the mourning family supersede etiquette. Absolutely. Also, important to recognize that these ARE cultural. Most of these are “old school American/English WASP rules.” But they are - by and large - the “rules” you’ll find in old copies of Emily Post (and in some cases, current editions). ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/44 "2011-09-20T03:30:12Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I don’t know about that. MTV had a series “My Super Sweet Sixteen”, and quinceaneras (15th birthday parties for girls) still seem to be very popular among certain groups of Hispanics… They aren’t quite the s ame thing. A coming out party signified that a young lady was ready to “enter society” (ie it was now acceptab le for men to court her in hpes of gaining her hand in marriage). Fifthteen & sixteen year olds aren’t considered to be of marriagble age. > [@Alessan](#): > > I was just noting how culture-specific these “old fashioned” customs are. I mean, they’re hardly universal rules - someone from China or India, for instance, would regard them with utter bemusement. True. In Chinese culture it’s a huge social gaffe to give anything other than cash at weddings (though old people can get away with giving actual gold). > [@Chronos](#): > > At an uncle’s funeral a few weeks ago, the request was that all the mourners wear either hunting clothes or Steelers colors. If The Rules say that that’s a taboo, then The Rules are wrong. It’s supposed to be a celebration of the person’s life. My grandmother wore a bright red dress to my grandfather’s funeral; red was always his favourite color on her. > [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > …The bride and groom apparently also felt that showing up on time for their own wedding was an antiquated custom. ] Well the bride is supposed to be late for her wedding. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/45 "2011-09-20T07:08:18Z")
> [@Randy\_Seltzer](#): > > I was taught by an old-fashioned etiquettista. There are tons of little behaviors that may be “the old fashioned proper way” but of which very few people are aware. > The gentleman should always follow his lady through a door after having held it for her. The one exception is revolving doors. The man leads through revolving doors because a proper lady likely lacks the upper-body strength to move them. > > I agree with those above who note that the “old fashioned” proper way to do it is to hand write a thank you note for every occasion. Intimate dinner party? Thank you note. Wedding gift? Thank you note. Visited at the hospital? Thank you note. Mostly obsolete now, but I do know some people who still adhere to this and it always comes across as incredibly classy. > > If it is a courting situation, the gentleman should appear bearing flowers. If it is a wrist corsage or nosegay, the gentleman should apply it to the lady’s non-dominant hand, so that she can dine with greater ease. If the gentleman should chance to apply it to the wrong wrist, it would be uncouth for the lady to change it. > > According to my mother, when ascending stairs the gentleman leads, to assure the lady that he isn’t looking up her dress. When descending stairs, the gentleman also leads, to protect the lady from a tumble should she be overcome with the vapors. I was taught that a gentleman follows a lady upstairs and precedes her down, presumably so that in case she trips and falls he’ll be there to catch her. I think when this rule was commonly in play there wasn’t a lot of danger of him being able to see up her skirt. If one sends a thank you note, a bread-and-butter note, a condolence card, anything of a personal nature, one hand-writes it, address and all. A gentleman precedes a lady through a revolving door so he can do most of the work. But, any time a gentleman holds a door, pulls out a chair, does any of those little niceties, the lady should be right there with a gracious thank you. It’s all part of the dance, as is subtly making sure he doesn’t put the flower on the ‘wrong’ wrist. If you do it right, there isn’t any awkwardness about it. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/46 "2011-09-20T07:54:12Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > For men, never wear french cuffs or any sort of cufflinks before 6:00pm. You seriously just made that one up. French cuffs are fine and always have been fine for business wear, at any time of day. Single cuffs have restrictions on etiquette, on the other hand. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/47 "2011-09-20T08:24:50Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > He’s Israeli. Lots of odd tribal customs and taboos yet no etiquette : ) We’re a classless society. We have no class whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/48 "2011-09-20T08:57:44Z")
Regarding Thank You notes, I posted something similar to this once before: According to Emily Post: If you attended a function or asked someone for something and they comply, you are always required to: Write them a formal 1st class letter (return receipt requested) offering your sincere and undying appreciation. The recipient of this formal letter must acknowledge this in writing within 7 business days but are only required to use a telegram. Once you receive the telegram, you have 3 business days to respond in writing via postcard. The recipient of the postcard has 2 days to phone you advising receipt of the card. Afterwards, each party must exchange one email expressing their friendship and admiration. Finally, the next time the parties involved actually see each other, they each must make eye contact and smile while simultaneously displaying the “thumbs up” gesture followed by jumping into the air and clicking their heels. After that, you’re done and may return to your normal life. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/49 "2011-09-20T09:13:44Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > “Old Fashioned” Etiquette I’m pretty sure you’re just supposed to drink it. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/50 "2011-09-20T11:56:40Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I’m pretty sure you’re just supposed to drink it. You win this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/51 "2011-09-20T13:14:44Z")
There are plenty of debutantes here where I come from - you’d never know if you weren’t “Old Columbia”, but I went to high school with all those people and they definitely still have a Season and all. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/52 "2011-09-20T13:44:47Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > You seriously just made that one up. French cuffs are fine and always have been fine for business wear, at any time of day. Single cuffs have restrictions on etiquette, on the other hand. LOL! Honey, this is DC, and even worse - Northern Virginia. We still think light grey suits are a travesty, and when the Republicans are in office, we cringe at all the bright red neckties! My Aunts still speak in diapproving tones of Mrs. KEnnedy wearing pearls to Luncheon. Enagement rings are the exception to quite few rules. They may be worn 24/7 even if they have precious stones, and they are the only time a lady may accept a precious stone as a gift from a man who is not her Father or (yet) her husband. The ring must be returned if for some reason the marriage does not take place. Re: Anglo Saxon - I’m Gaelic, actually, and if you try to offer money to dance with me, my Father and Uncles will beat the tar out of you. It would be kind of you to offer however, as it’s a disppointing wedding when at least one guy doesn’t get dragged out back for some infraction or other. Don’t worry, you’ll all come back in with your arms 'round each other and spend the rest of the night singing. Funerals and children: When children are attending a funeral they wear white, not black. I always assumed that the same would be true for a deceased child, but thank goodness I’ve never had to face that one. Region specific: Children refer to adults wo are close friends of the family as Mr. FirstName or Ms.Firstname (never “Mrs.” which is odd.) ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/53 "2011-09-20T13:52:43Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > The ring must be returned if for some reason the marriage does not take place. Really? I’d heard that if the man is the one who calls off the wedding, the woman is meant to retain the ring. Like the ring is some kind of performance bond for the potential husband. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/54 "2011-09-20T13:56:56Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > Another one: Gentlemen should walk on the outside of the sidewalk when walking with a lady. When going up stairs, the gentleman goes second, but when going down stairs, the gentleman goes first. (I assume this is to catch her should she stumble.) What happens when walking with a pre op transsexual? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/55 "2011-09-20T14:19:48Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Bah. If I wear a hat, it’s because it’s part of the outfit, not necessarily for warmth. Why should I take it off? And where would I put it anyway? Exactly. There’s no place to put them any more. The rule was obsolete when it was no longer standard for every destination to have a coat check or valet. > [@](#): > > I prefer to follow rules of etiquette that are polite for reasons other than “it’s considered polite to follow this rule.” Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/56 "2011-09-20T14:57:56Z")
I think these rules are also regional. For instance, it isn’t appropriate to give anything BUT cash for a wedding in NYC or Long Island. I am not sure if that extends to the entire north east. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/57 "2011-09-20T15:02:31Z")
[This](http://www.etiquettehell.com/) is an interesting etiquette site. If you look in the archives you can get lost in reading the stories for hours. She has very strong opinions on the tackiness of the dollar dance, the absolute horror of not sending a wedding thank you for a year and the behavior expected at weddings, baby showers, funerals and everything in between. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/58 "2011-09-20T15:27:29Z")
The dollar dance blew my _mind_ when I started going to these Pittsburgh weddings. You make me sit through a whole freaking church service, there’s a CASH BAR, and then this… this… thing? God, I don’t know what’s wrong with you people. ---
**Author:** ![Sally\_Mander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Sally\_Mander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sally_Mander)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/59 "2011-09-20T15:59:18Z")
I think the dollar dance is just tacky, and refused to have one when I got married. However, way back in the dark ages, when married couples were young and just starting out in life, I can see the …I don’t know… charm? Two young people, setting up a new household, sure, they can always use some cash. Plus, I think it was more of a way to make sure they had money on their honeymoon. These days, when the couple is likely to be older, well-established in careers, and have been on their own or even living together for several years, it’s not so cute anymore. It just comes off as a cash grab. A cash bar at a wedding? That’s really bad. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837/60 "2011-09-20T16:29:24Z")
> [@YoSaffBridge](#): > > I think the dollar dance is just tacky, and refused to have one when I got married. However, way back in the dark ages, when married couples were young and just starting out in life, I can see the …I don’t know… charm? Two young people, setting up a new household, sure, they can always use some cash. Plus, I think it was more of a way to make sure they had money on their honeymoon. > > These days, when the couple is likely to be older, well-established in careers, and have been on their own or even living together for several years, it’s not so cute anymore. It just comes off as a cash grab. > > A cash bar at a wedding? That’s really bad. And neither of those things is at all odd out here in my part of the Midwest. Nor has it been for eons - although Emily Post and Miss Manners might recoil in horror at either of them. I always “assume” a bar will be cash - I can be pleasantly surprised when its hosted. (And hosted mine - I always host the bar if I have a party - but I can be a little bit of a prig on the whole ‘the person who invites, pays’). And its a little silly for a dollar dance to be a cash grab, when your great uncle is giving you a whole dollar. Especially when the bride and groom are long past “starting out.” Yeah, its tacky, but your father’s friends and your uncles all get to dance with the bride (albeit briefly) and it makes their night. In a region/culture where its normal, a dollar dance “makes your guests comfortable.” (Money trees are another cultural wedding tradition that seems endlessly tacky in the “Emily Post” world.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-fashioned-etiquette/596837.md?page=4)