# Old folks using McDonald's as an old folks' home. What would you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926 "2014-01-16T02:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/1 "2014-01-16T02:03:56Z")
The story: > **[Fighting a McDonald’s in Queens for the Right to Sit. And Sit. And Sit....](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/nyregion/fighting-a-mcdonalds-for-the-right-to-sit-and-sit-and-sit.html?nl=nyregion&emc=edit_ur_20140115&_r=1)** > > The restaurant in Flushing says a group of elderly patrons drive away business by sitting for hours, while the group says they are entitled to take their time. > [@](#): > > Mr. Lee said the officers had been called because he and his friends — a revolving group who shuffle into the McDonald’s on the corner of Parsons and Northern Boulevards on walkers, or with canes, in wheelchairs or with infirm steps, as early as 5 a.m. and often linger until well after dark — had, as they seem to do every day, long overstayed their welcome. > > “They ordered us out,” Mr. Lee said from his seat in the same McDonald’s booth a week after the incident, beneath a sign that said customers have 20 minutes to finish their food. (He had already been there two hours.) “So I left,” he said. > > “Then I walked around the block and came right back again.” If you were the owner of the McDonald’s, what would you do about this? Would your solution be any different if these were teenagers? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/2 "2014-01-16T02:09:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you were the owner of the McDonald’s, what would you do about this? > > Would your solution be any different if these were teenagers? Loitering is loitering. It’s a restaurant not a community center. You give your customers a reasonable amount of time to eat their meal and then you ask them to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/3 "2014-01-16T02:11:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Loitering is loitering. It’s a restaurant not a community center. You give your customers a reasonable amount of time to eat their meal and then you ask them to leave. Concur. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/4 "2014-01-16T02:16:53Z")
We saw a similar sign at a McDonalds in downtown Chicago. I’m guessing they also only order a coffee or soda and spend the day with free refills. The patrons should show some common sense and respect to the business. I’m guessing that they couldn’t congregate at the bank or dry cleaners and hang out for 8 hours at a time either. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/5 "2014-01-16T02:17:51Z")
They have other places to go. At this point they are just coming back to be a pain. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/6 "2014-01-16T02:21:58Z")
The covered area out front or to the side is fine since it’s technically outside the main structure. In fact, a number of vagrants and truant waifs go there regularly for their free meals, courtesy of the franchisee. That’s here in the Philippines. I used to get irked by students who each buy a coke and fries and stay there the whole day doing their term papers, or just playing hooky, inside the main dining area. Fortunately, malls took them in. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/7 "2014-01-16T02:26:01Z")
One of them walks past three senior centers to get there. There’s a Burger King and another McDonalds nearby that don’t get hit. These people are squatters. They’ve been doing this for five years. They think they’ve established turf rights. Sadly, unless there’s a big community outreach convincing them to relocate, this probably isn’t going to change unless there are arrests. If it had been younger people, that would have happened already. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/8 "2014-01-16T02:34:32Z")
Here’s where they’re wrong “the group say they are customers and entitled to take their time. A lot of time” They’re on private property. All it’s going to take to escalate this a bit further, and I don’t know why it hasn’t happened yet, is for the GM or owner to tell the police he doesn’t want them there anymore. At that point the police will let them know that if they come back they’ll be trespassing and ticketed/arrested. If they’re smart they’ll go somewhere else. The problem is, they spend $1.39 and sit there for 4 hours and during time how many people walked in, decided it was too busy and went to the Burger King across the street? How much money are they losing cleaning the bathrooms more often, giving away coffee refills etc. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/9 "2014-01-16T02:38:07Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/10 "2014-01-16T02:39:50Z")
If they can play music in the dining area, make it some loud dance music for a few days. I’d be at my wit’s end if I were the manager. I really think just not serving them and not letting them in at all is the only answer. I’m interested to hear what kind of answers the director of that Korean senior center gets, it sounds like he made an ideal space for them with dirt cheap coffee, why the heck wouldn’t they want to hang out there instead? Maybe if there are no windows - I’d rather hang out where there are windows. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/11 "2014-01-16T04:19:28Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > They’re on private property. All it’s going to take to escalate this a bit further, and I don’t know why it hasn’t happened yet, is for the GM or owner to tell the police he doesn’t want them there anymore. At that point the police will let them know that if they come back they’ll be trespassing and ticketed/arrested. If they’re smart they’ll go somewhere else. The problem is, they spend $1.39 and sit there for 4 hours and during time how many people walked in, decided it was too busy and went to the Burger King across the street? How much money are they losing cleaning the bathrooms more often, giving away coffee refills etc. > [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > If they can play music in the dining area, make it some loud dance music for a few days. I’d be at my wit’s end if I were the manager. I really think just not serving them and not letting them in at all is the only answer. Legally, there are plenty of options for McDonalds to take against these people. But they have to consider the bigger picture. They’re a business and they don’t want to alienate the community. I’m sure McDonalds would be much happier if they could just convince the seniors to agree to go someplace else. > [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > I’m interested to hear what kind of answers the director of that Korean senior center gets, it sounds like he made an ideal space for them with dirt cheap coffee, why the heck wouldn’t they want to hang out there instead? Maybe if there are no windows - I’d rather hang out where there are windows. Maybe it’s just become a point of stubbornness. Some of the quoted statements seemed to have a defiant attitude. Maybe the seniors don’t want to feel like they’re being pushed around even when they’re in the wrong. (Which makes them sound like a bunch of teenagers in the same position.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/12 "2014-01-16T04:34:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Legally, there are plenty of options for McDonalds to take against these people. But they have to consider the bigger picture. They’re a business and they don’t want to alienate the community. I’m sure McDonalds would be much happier if they could just convince the seniors to agree to go someplace else. They would be but it’s clearly not working. I’m surprised the police haven’t stopped responding. On the one hand I do (more then you’d understand) realize the social impact of kicking out a bunch of 80 year olds. OTOH, if they told the story properly and stuck to the facts they’d probably be okay or at the very least it would blow over in a week or two. People may understand if they say. “In a given day they take up 6 booths for 8-12 hours and spend about $6. A typical McDonalds should see $173.50 in that space during that time” (for example). They could even go further and say that over the last five years they’ve lost XX dollars and it’s hurting their bottom line enough that they’ve had to let 3 employees go and etc etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/13 "2014-01-16T13:26:34Z")
The music idea may help them get the hint. But what is the root of this? Why do these people go to this McD’s, and what was the management’s reaction over the 5 yr time frame? There are aspects of the story that are missing. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/14 "2014-01-16T17:55:31Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > If they can play music in the dining area, make it some loud dance music for a few days. Agreed. A little “Gangnam Style” would likely get the old folks to look for someplace more peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/15 "2014-01-16T18:00:20Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > The problem is, they spend $1.39 and sit there for 4 hours and during time how many people walked in, decided it was too busy and went to the Burger King across the street? How much money are they losing cleaning the bathrooms more often, giving away coffee refills etc. The article mentioned that other patrons have asked for refunds because no seats were available. Personally, I’d find the hard plastic seats in McDonald’s too uncomfortable to sit in all day. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/16 "2014-01-16T18:14:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Agreed. A little “Gangnam Style” would likely get the old folks to look for someplace more peaceful. This was my initial thought. Didn’t convenience stores pipe-in classical music to the perimeter of their stores to keep teenagers from loitering? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/17 "2014-01-16T18:15:34Z")
That’s pretty ignorant on the part of the old folks - McDonald’s is a business, not their living room at home. They have no right to loiter there all day, every day. How much of this story is the attitude of these old folks that they are old, and they are immigrants, and you’re being ageist and racist by asking them not to do things they shouldn’t be doing? What they’re doing isn’t any different than bums who buy a small coffee and spend the whole day nursing it, using the McDonald’s like a flophouse. As the franchise owner, I would do everything in my power to get these parasites to move on. I like the idea of blaring dance music - maybe some death metal? I would also ask them to leave every 20 minutes; I would also consider not serving them at all - “We reserve the right to refuse service to any customers” is an established business practice. I don’t think that McDonald’s franchise would suffer from losing their $4 a day. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/18 "2014-01-16T18:23:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The article mentioned that other patrons have asked for refunds because no seats were available. And if they’re taking up all available seats for hours after finishing their meal/coffee, to the point of costing the business customers and money, then they’re doing the business a disservice and they should either understand that and move on, or be asked to leave. With legal enforcement of ‘No Loitering’ if necessary, as the ultimate end of the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/19 "2014-01-16T18:32:22Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > . . . I would also consider not serving them at all - “We reserve the right to refuse service to any customers” is an established business practice. I don’t think that McDonald’s franchise would suffer from losing their $4 a day. In order to do that, the cashiers would have to be able to recognize each of them. Maybe for a short term push, a manager or assistant manager could be posted at the counter, but to work long-term every cashier would have to know every loiterer by sight, so that the managers are free to work in the back. That’s not a small thing. Even taking the pictures needed for training could get sticky. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926/20 "2014-01-16T18:34:30Z")
Sounds to me like the community has a gap in needs. There should be an assessment on why senior centers aren’t filling their roles, and some kind of mediation between the city, the seniors, and, if possible, their families. I strongly suspect there are cultural aspects that can be ironed out here, given some collaborative discussion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-folks-using-mcdonalds-as-an-old-folks-home-what-would-you-do/678926.md?page=2)