# Old gods in fiction / Need for belief \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 12, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646 "2013-09-12T11:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/1 "2013-09-12T11:56:53Z")
In multiple works they have used the idea that old gods still exist but are weaker or fading due to lack of belief. Off the top of my head I can think of a few that fit. \*American Gods _by Neil Gaiman and the_ Who Mourns for Adonais?\*episode of Star Trek TOS. I haven’t caught up with all the books yet but the Dresden Files uses this. There are other examples that are just beyond the grasp of my memory. So what are some other examples and who did it first? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/2 "2013-09-12T11:57:53Z")
Oops. Reported my own post for the move to CS. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/3 "2013-09-12T12:09:53Z")
Larry Niven’s _The Magic Goes Away_ had this. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/4 "2013-09-12T12:20:09Z")
Lots of choices here. Two off the top of my head. It’s a minor but increasingly important element of George RR Martin’s _Song of Ice and Fire_ stuff. It’s the main focus of _Small Gods_ by Terry Pratchett. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/5 "2013-09-12T12:39:43Z")
Moving from IMHO to Mount Olympus, er, Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/6 "2013-09-12T12:57:18Z")
Puck of Pook’s Hill by Kipling has something along those lines with the Wayland Smith arriving in England and slowly fading in power and stature as his believers disappear. Puck however remains as he always has. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/7 "2013-09-12T12:57:57Z")
And the reverse is a small plot point in Pratchett’s _Going Postal_. It involves the rise of the goddess Anoia, Goddess of Things Stuck In Drawers. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/8 "2013-09-12T13:05:02Z")
Turtledove’s _Case of the Toxic Spell Dump_ exists in a world that relies on all religions, prior gods etc. for its tech and engineering. The plot revolves around clashing religions and god-sets and the artificial preservation of things like the Cult of Apollo. It also ruthlessly Anglicizes all place-names in the southwestern US to absolutely devastatingly funny effect. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/9 "2013-09-12T13:06:40Z")
Man, I haven’t thought of that book in a while. I think I have a copy laying around. Probably my favorite Turtledove novel. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/10 "2013-09-12T13:39:06Z")
“Night Life of the Gods” (1931) by [Thorne Smith](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topper_(books)), an author best known for the “Topper” series of books. In NLOTG, an inventor creates a 1920s style transmogrifier ray that turns people into stone, and vice versa. (Dr. Frank’n’Furter ripped off his idea about 30 years later.) Someone aims the ray at statues of the Roman Gods in the NYC Metropolitan Museum of Art and turns them into real “people.” The whole lot of them go on merry adventures in prohibition era NYC. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/11 "2013-09-12T13:41:10Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Turtledove’s _Case of the Toxic Spell Dump_ exists in a world that relies on all religions, prior gods etc. for its tech and engineering. The plot revolves around clashing religions and god-sets and the artificial preservation of things like the Cult of Apollo. > > It also ruthlessly Anglicizes all place-names in the southwestern US to absolutely devastatingly funny effect. Highly recommended. Weird. I just yesterday tossed that paperback into the car for reading at meetings. Great book! ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/12 "2013-09-12T13:43:47Z")
There was a miniseries on NBC called [Merlin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin_%28film%29) that featured Mab, a pagan goddess on the verge of extinction because she was being forgotten after the spread of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/13 "2013-09-12T13:48:09Z")
It’s been a while since I read it, but IIRC Tom Robbins’ novel “Jitterbug Perfume” features Pan, who has become invisible due to lack of belief. However, even if you can’t see him, you can definitely smell him. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/14 "2013-09-12T13:53:14Z")
Anderson’s _A Midsummer Tempest_ fits, I think. Faeries and Herne and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/15 "2013-09-12T14:00:16Z")
Adams’ _The Long, Dark Tea-time of the Soul_; though I don’t remember if the gods were weak there or just bored and tired. Ditto ditto Tom Holt’s _Expecting Someone Taller_ (I think it was), where an ordinary Joe gets ahold of the Ring of the Niebelung (or however it is spelled) and with the (largely subconscious) power of life and death over the whole world … everything actually goes quite well, much to the dismay of the world’s news broadcasters. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/16 "2013-09-12T14:05:08Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > It’s been a while since I read it, but IIRC Tom Robbins’ novel “Jitterbug Perfume” features Pan, who has become invisible due to lack of belief. However, even if you can’t see him, you can definitely smell him. Ha! I remember that book. It was one of my favorites for a while, but I haven’t read it in twenty-mmmrmr-years. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/17 "2013-09-12T14:16:18Z")
Piers Anthony uses this idea in the Incarnations of Immortality series. For example, the incarnation of good that we would call God is said to be a relatively new diety and very powerful because of strong belief. The Jewish god is shown as a separate person, with diminished power due to having less followers and emaciated during the holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/18 "2013-09-12T14:33:17Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Ditto ditto Tom Holt’s _Expecting Someone Taller_ (I think it was), where an ordinary Joe gets ahold of the Ring of the Niebelung (or however it is spelled) and with the (largely subconscious) power of life and death over the whole world … > > everything actually goes quite well, much to the dismay of the world’s news broadcasters. Several of Holt’s books deal with stuff like that: _Ye Gods, Here Comes the Sun, Odds & Gods,_ and such. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/19 "2013-09-12T15:22:05Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > It’s been a while since I read it, but IIRC Tom Robbins’ novel “Jitterbug Perfume” features Pan, who has become invisible due to lack of belief. However, even if you can’t see him, you can definitely smell him. Pan was all over British literature for much of the 1890’s. By the end of the decade, one noted wit made fun of the endless stream of horned li’l gods popping out the forest “to wean quiet English villages from respectability.” Arthur Machen’s _The Great God Pan_ - an excellent example - inspired Lovecraft. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646/20 "2013-09-12T15:29:10Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Ha! I remember that book. It was one of my favorites for a while, but I haven’t read it in twenty-mmmrmr-years. Hence the user name? 😉 (Wasn’t Ellen Cherry one of the waitresses in that book?) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-gods-in-fiction-need-for-belief-edited-title/668646.md?page=2)