# Old man drives through market, kills 10...gets worse than prison? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282 "2006-11-21T13:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Subway\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Subway\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subway_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/1 "2006-11-21T13:53:41Z")
I think I like this judge, but I can’t be sure. In 2003, George Russell Weller sped his car through a crowded farmer’s market, killing ten people and injuring dozens. Yesterday, the judge found him guilty of felony vehicular manslaughter, told the court that Weller deserved prison, and [sentenced the 89-year-old man to 5 years probation and more than $50,000 in fines](http://news.google.com/?ned=us&ncl=1111363823&hl=en). Weller couldn’t be bothered to show up for his sentencing. I was pissed about this verdict, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Prison is, literally, too good for this guy. Keeping him out of jail means not having the state pay for his rent and his ill health, and fining him means he has less money to pay for his own selfish health care. Plus, the guilty verdict can only mean more civil lawsuits are coming down the pike. This looks more and more like a death sentence, but cheaper and taking fewer years to complete. Or am I wrong? Someone help me out here. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/2 "2006-11-21T14:00:34Z")
[QUOTE=Subway Prophet] Yesterday, the judge found him guilty of felony vehicular manslaughter, told the court that Weller deserved prison, and [sentenced the 89-year-old man to 5 years probation and more than $50,000 in fines](http://news.google.com/?ned=us&ncl=1111363823&hl=en). Weller couldn’t be bothered to show up for his sentencing. [/QUOTE] The linked article put his fines and restitution at $101,700, and also noted that he was too ill to come to court. It also cited his illness as the basis for the probation vs. prison. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/3 "2006-11-21T14:03:50Z")
Way to ruin a “debate”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/4 "2006-11-21T14:07:54Z")
[QUOTE=Subway Prophet] Weller couldn’t be bothered to show up for his sentencing. [/QUOTE] Not to pile on, but from the first link in the OP’s link: > [@](#): > > Weller, confined to a sickbed, was not in court for his sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/5 "2006-11-21T14:10:18Z")
So you make it worse… ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/6 "2006-11-21T14:15:13Z")
I think the judge also said that his “contrition” was unconvincing. I’d always thought he was just senile. In any case, the cost to the state to keep him alive in prison was unjustified, in the judge’s view. Probably the quality of the prison health care would kill him anyway. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/7 "2006-11-21T14:38:17Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] Probably the quality of the prison health care would kill him anyway. [/QUOTE] Of course, you are speaking of California’s prison health care and not that of Wisconsin. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/8 "2006-11-21T15:09:33Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Of course, you are speaking of California’s prison health care and not that of Wisconsin. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Hmm. Next felony I commit I’ll be sure to do it in Wisconsin. Especially when I’m 89 years old. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/9 "2006-11-21T16:44:24Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] Hmm. Next felony I commit I’ll be sure to do it in Wisconsin. Especially when I’m 89 years old. [/QUOTE] Well, be sure to do the research to commit a crime that will get you placed in Qadgop’s facility, otherwise you can’t be sure what kind of treatment you’ll get. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/10 "2006-11-21T16:50:18Z")
In our local paper, the headline was more alarming than the story. It contained the words “market crash.” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![M.Meursault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@M.Meursault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/M.Meursault)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/11 "2006-11-21T17:07:32Z")
Actually, while I wholeheartedly agree with the judge’s sentence and reasoning, I can’t help but feeling that Weller should have received at least _some_ jail-time, even if it’s a token amount (like a week or something). I simply cannot believe that he would not have received even a day in jail for killing 10 people. I know he’s old and infirm, but judges have jailed people as old and as infirm as him before, and often for less. I also think that Weller is going to be bankrupt, if he’s not already. If the judge’s fine doesn’t wipe him out, I’m sure his lawyer’s fees certainly will. What’s he’s broke, what are the victims going to do? They can’t collect his Social Security or his pension, so he will remain unaccountable for 10 murders. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/12 "2006-11-21T17:11:43Z")
[QUOTE=M. Meursault] I also think that Weller is going to be bankrupt, if he’s not already. If the judge’s fine doesn’t wipe him out, I’m sure his lawyer’s fees certainly will. What’s he’s broke, what are the victims going to do? They can’t collect his Social Security or his pension, so he will remain unaccountable for 10 murders. [/QUOTE] Murders? He was convicted of vehicular homoicide. Do you think he intended to kill those people? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/13 "2006-11-21T17:13:26Z")
Make that “homicide”, not “homoicide.” Eek. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/14 "2006-11-21T17:46:26Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] He was convicted of **vehicular homoicide**. [/QUOTE] Ah, so he rear-ended them? ---
**Author:** ![Mayo\_Speaks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mayo\_Speaks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mayo_Speaks)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/15 "2006-11-21T18:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Murders? He was convicted of vehicular homoicide. Do you think he intended to kill those people? [/QUOTE] He was convicted of vehicular manslaughter, not vehicular homicide. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/16 "2006-11-21T18:22:49Z")
I work about three miles from the Santa Monica farmer’s market. There was never much hope for a good resolution to this case. Weller’s age and mental state, plus the fact that it was an accident, meant that he could never get the sort of punishment that would feel appropriate for the magnitude of destruction that he caused. He’ll probably be dead within the year. Maybe that will help the families move on. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/17 "2006-11-21T18:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=M. Meursault] Actually, while I wholeheartedly agree with the judge’s sentence and reasoning, I can’t help but feeling that Weller should have received at least _some_ jail-time, even if it’s a token amount (like a week or something). [/QUOTE] Why? What possible purpose would it serve? > [@](#): > > What’s he’s broke, what are the victims going to do? They can’t collect his Social Security or his pension, so he will remain unaccountable for 10 murders. Except for the fines and probation, you mean. Why is that not considered being held “accountable”? I’ve got news for you; the purpose of our criminal courts is to punish the guilty, not to exact retribution for the victims of crime. ---
**Author:** ![Subway\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Subway\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subway_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/18 "2006-11-21T18:35:56Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] the purpose of our criminal courts is to punish the guilty, not to exact retribution for the victims of crime. [/QUOTE] Isn’t retribution one of the core meanings of “justice”? ---
**Author:** ![M.Meursault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@M.Meursault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/M.Meursault)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/19 "2006-11-21T18:37:49Z")
Yeah, not murders. That was the wrong term, definitely. As a law student, I am shamed by my misuse of the term, as I shouldn’t have overlooked the distinction. And I know that he is being held “accountable”, but I don’t feel that a fine and probation is enough of a punishment. I know that the purpose of punishment is not to make the victims and their families feel better (except if it’s the death penalty, of course). However, the OP noted about the pending civil suits (two have already been filed) and I’m sure that’s a consideration the judge took into account. But a fine and probation? That’s what drunk drivers get. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/20 "2006-11-21T19:14:15Z")
[QUOTE=Mayo Speaks!] He was convicted of vehicular manslaughter, not vehicular homicide. [/QUOTE] Thanks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282.md?page=2)