# Old man drives through market, kills 10...gets worse than prison? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282 "2006-11-21T13:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/21 "2006-11-21T21:16:23Z")
[QUOTE=Subway Prophet] Isn’t retribution one of the core meanings of “justice”? [/QUOTE] Not when referring to our system of laws and their administration. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/22 "2006-11-21T21:22:41Z")
In cases like this anything you do really isn’t going to make anyone feel much better. I mean the guy is 90 what can you really do to him. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/23 "2006-11-21T21:24:04Z")
Should have ended that with a ? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![M.Meursault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@M.Meursault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/M.Meursault)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/24 "2006-11-21T21:34:25Z")
[QUOTE=pool] I mean the guy is 90 what can you really do to him. [/QUOTE] Put him in jail as we would with anyone else. He broke the law, he should go to jail. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the cost of someone’s healthcare shouldn’t be a determinative factor in whether or not they should spend time in jail. Why should this man, at 90, be treated better than a 30 year old with AIDS or cancer? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/25 "2006-11-21T21:46:20Z")
He shouldn’t be but if I was 90 and it was me and I’d be dead likely sooner rather than later going to jail wouldn’t bother me all that much. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/26 "2006-11-21T22:01:11Z")
I don’t understand the anger. But then I don’t know that much about the story. Still… it was an accident. What more do we know about the guy other than he is 89 years old and that he accidentally killed 10 people? Is there something else about the case that should lead me to actually feel anger at the guy rather than pity? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/27 "2006-11-21T22:15:22Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I don’t understand the anger. But then I don’t know that much about the story. Still… it was an accident. What more do we know about the guy other than he is 89 years old and that he accidentally killed 10 people? Is there something else about the case that should lead me to actually feel anger at the guy rather than pity? -FrL- [/QUOTE] Well, reading about the case, apparently the guy was involved in a similar accident where he hit the accelerator instead of the brake, but fortunately there were no people in the way to be killed. I think that older people sometimes have to accept that they are no longer mentally or physically capable of driving: my father made that decision many years ago. It’s not as if there are no alternatives to driving your own car: you can always take taxis. ---
**Author:** ![M.Meursault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@M.Meursault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/M.Meursault)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/28 "2006-11-21T22:21:09Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I don’t understand the anger. But then I don’t know that much about the story. Still… it was an accident. What more do we know about the guy other than he is 89 years old and that he accidentally killed 10 people? Is there something else about the case that should lead me to actually feel anger at the guy rather than pity? -FrL- [/QUOTE] It may have been an accident but that doesn’t mean laws weren’t broken or that he shouldn’t be held accountable. I think the big factor wasn’t that he accidentally hit 10 people but rather that he went 2 1/2 blocks to do so. He made a mistake but kept going with it. It was negligence that rose to the level of criminal culpability. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/29 "2006-11-21T23:28:43Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I don’t understand the anger. But then I don’t know that much about the story. Still… it was an accident. What more do we know about the guy other than he is 89 years old and that he accidentally killed 10 people? Is there something else about the case that should lead me to actually feel anger at the guy rather than pity? -FrL- [/QUOTE] Yes. As both the judge and the jury found, he was callous and unrepentant and showed “an enormous indifference to human life.” He managed quite nicely to avoid hitting any of the cars or trucks in his path, apparently _intentionally_ pointing his car directly at _people_. There was absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he even _attempted_ to hit the brakes for three full blocks! The only reason his car even came to a stop at that point was because a body got stuck under it. Not to mention that when the decrepit old prick got out of his car, he started yelling that the people he plowed through should’ve _gotten out of his way_! The youngest victim was 7 months old. _That’s_ why the anger. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/30 "2006-11-21T23:33:08Z")
[QUOTE=M. Meursault] It may have been an accident but that doesn’t mean laws weren’t broken or that he shouldn’t be held accountable. I think the big factor wasn’t that he accidentally hit 10 people but rather that he went 2 1/2 blocks to do so. He made a mistake but kept going with it. It was negligence that rose to the level of criminal culpability. [/QUOTE] Right, I’m not saying I don’t understand the need for prosecution, I’m saying I don’t understand the anger I’ve seen expressed here and elsewhere. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/31 "2006-11-22T01:01:50Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Right, I’m not saying I don’t understand the need for prosecution, I’m saying I don’t understand the anger I’ve seen expressed here and elsewhere. -FrL- [/QUOTE] The anger, from my perspective at least, is because Mr. Weller chose to drive when he was incapable of operating his vehicle responsibly. He’s just like a drunk driver. Very few if any drunks get behind the wheel intending to kill anyone or get in an accident of any kind. They just want to get home or to the next bar or whatever. But they should know better than to drive at all. So should Mr. Weller. He needed to give up his keys long ago. Because of his arrogance ten people died needlessly. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/32 "2006-11-22T01:11:35Z")
[QUOTE=M. Meursault] It may have been an accident but that doesn’t mean laws weren’t broken or that he shouldn’t be held accountable. [/QUOTE] He is being held accountable. ---
**Author:** ![M.Meursault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@M.Meursault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/M.Meursault)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/33 "2006-11-22T01:33:06Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] He is being held accountable. [/QUOTE] Yes, you are correct, good sir, but the punishment is not enough. His sentence is not proportional to the crimes. His punishment is far too light. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/34 "2006-11-22T01:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=M. Meursault] Put him in jail as we would with anyone else. He broke the law, he should go to jail. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the cost of someone’s healthcare shouldn’t be a determinative factor in whether or not they should spend time in jail. Why should this man, at 90, be treated better than a 30 year old with AIDS or cancer? [/QUOTE] A 30 year old with late stage AIDS or terminal cancer would likely be treated in much the same way; many states have “compassionate release” for people expected to die soon. It’s a tragedy all around, but switching him from the hospital he’s in to a prison hospital wouldn’t really accomplish anything. ---
**Author:** ![M.Meursault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@M.Meursault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/M.Meursault)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/35 "2006-11-22T01:52:13Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] A 30 year old with late stage AIDS or terminal cancer would likely be treated in much the same way; many states have “compassionate release” for people expected to die soon. It’s a tragedy all around, but switching him from the hospital he’s in to a prison hospital wouldn’t really accomplish anything. [/QUOTE] Is Weller expected to die soon? I haven’t seen anything that said he was expected to die soon, only that he was ill. From my research into California law, compassionate release is afforded if a prison/state doctor says that the prisoner has six or less months to live. (I can find a cite for that later, if you want; I’m too lazy to look for it now). Ahh, according to the CNN article, the judge said that Weller’s health problems would make him a burden on authorities and taxpayers and incarceration would likely kill him. Concerning what incarceration would accomplish: it would be proportional punishment for his crimes. He killed 10 people; he doesn’t deserve to be free. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/36 "2006-11-22T02:05:00Z")
[QUOTE=M. Meursault] Is Weller expected to die soon? I haven’t seen anything that said he was expected to die soon, only that he was ill. From my research into California law, compassionate release is afforded if a prison/state doctor says that the prisoner has six or less months to live. (I can find a cite for that later, if you want; I’m too lazy to look for it now). Ahh, according to the CNN article, the judge said that Weller’s health problems would make him a burden on authorities and taxpayers and incarceration would likely kill him. Concerning what incarceration would accomplish: it would be proportional punishment for his crimes. He killed 10 people; he doesn’t deserve to be free. [/QUOTE] Anybody in the hospital with severe heart disease a month shy of being 90 years old can be expected to die pretty soon. He’s not really “free” now; he’s confined to a hospital bed. Incarceration would just mean putting him in a different hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/37 "2006-11-22T02:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] There was absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he even _attempted_ to hit the brakes for three full blocks! The only reason his car even came to a stop at that point was because a body got stuck under it. Not to mention that when the decrepit old prick got out of his car, he started yelling that the people he plowed through should’ve _gotten out of his way_! [/QUOTE] If he thought the accelerator was the brake pedal, of course there was no evidence that he attempted to hit the brakes. He thought he was hitting the brakes, right? As for yelling at people, I think we’ve all seen similar reactions many times. You’ve never yelled, “Now look what you made me do!” when you’ve accidentally hurt someone? The laws that were broken were the result of an accident. The only thing you can rightfully be angry at this man for is not giving up driving. I won’t argue against that, but I won’t be surprised at myself if I do the same thing when I’m old. Please understand this isn’t addressed at you personally. I just feel the anger is unwarranted. Ten lives lost is terrible, but I don’t think this guy deserves the hatred he’s getting. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/38 "2006-11-22T04:09:39Z")
[QUOTE=bluethree] The laws that were broken were the result of an accident. The only thing you can rightfully be angry at this man for is not giving up driving. I won’t argue against that, but I won’t be surprised at myself if I do the same thing when I’m old. Please understand this isn’t addressed at you personally. I just feel the anger is unwarranted. Ten lives lost is terrible, but I don’t think this guy deserves the hatred he’s getting. [/QUOTE] You don’t get it. In the years after the accident, he hasn’t shown any remorse or apologized to the families of the people he killed. I agree with the judge. As a California taxpayer, I don’t want to pay for this guy’s care. If he ever gets out of the hospital, take everything he owns, and then maybe throw him in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/39 "2006-11-22T06:57:55Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] You don’t get it. In the years after the accident, he hasn’t shown any remorse [/quote] My parents used to accuse me of not “looking sorry.” In reality, they just didn’t understand what sorry looks like. > [@](#): > > or apologized to the families of the people he killed. An apology could be construed as an admission of guilt. I think lawyers generally tell their clients not to apologize. (He pled not guilty, right?) Anyway, if its true that it was an accident over which he had no control, then it doesn’t seem to me an apology is called for. Sometimes stuff just happens and it’s not really anybody’s fault. I don’t know that this is that kind of case–but neither do I know that it’s not. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282/40 "2006-11-22T07:09:24Z")
[QUOTE=M. Meursault] It may have been an accident but that doesn’t mean laws weren’t broken … [/QUOTE] Which laws were broken then? Just so I can understand why people want him in prison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-man-drives-through-market-kills-10-gets-worse-than-prison/381282.md?page=3)