# "Old movie" accent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994 "2009-08-28T02:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/1 "2009-08-28T02:58:00Z")
As a non-native speaker of English, I find it difficult to comprehend anything spoken in old American movies (from the 60s on back to the black & white era). The same thing applies to television shows, presidential addresses, etc. The only example I can think of off the top of my head is FDR’s [fireside chats](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFvrL_nqx2c), but this particular speaking style is VERY common in media of that time; even recently-made “era” movies try to mimic it. It drives me nuts and ruins a lot of perfectly good movies for me unless I can find a subtitle track. Now… I’m not just imagining this, am I? Does anyone else notice this? If there is indeed a difference, is it because of a certain regional accent? A pan-American evolution in speech? A side effect of early audio technology? ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/2 "2009-08-28T03:03:04Z")
I think what you’re describing is the [Mid-Atlantic accent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_English) . William F. Buckley Jr., a notable American conservative, also had this to an extent. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/3 "2009-08-28T03:07:17Z")
I think **statsman1982** is probably correct. You may also want to check out the [What is Julia Child’s accent?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=527954) thread. Other common accents are from around the New York area. Many lower-status characters had a ‘Brooklyn’ accent. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/4 "2009-08-28T03:11:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I think **statsman1982** is probably correct. You may also want to check out the [What is Julia Child’s accent?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=527954) thread. > > Other common accents are from around the New York area. Many lower-status characters had a ‘Brooklyn’ accent. Do you mean the ‘toity-toid and toid’ accent? Does anyone still have that natively? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/5 "2009-08-28T03:20:06Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Do you mean the ‘toity-toid and toid’ accent? Does anyone still have that natively? I’ve never heard anyone with that accent in real life. But then again, I’m a Leftie. (Coast, that is. 😉 ) I’ve heard the phrase you used, but I can’t remember if it was in a film or a parody. I was actually thinking of Bugs Bunny’s accent when I posted. Or Leo Gorcey. EDIT: Come to think of it, BB might have said ‘Toity-toid and Toid.’ ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/6 "2009-08-28T03:23:17Z")
If you watch Mission: Impossible, the lead actor is replaced after the first season. The [original guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill) has the 50s/60s accent, while as the [new guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Graves_(actor)) has a modern California accent. I don’t know if Steven Hill still has it, but he’s still around and acting, so you can probably check. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/7 "2009-08-28T03:26:25Z")
Velma Mulholland. She was a character on In Living Color. I tried so hard to find some video. She was a woman from the dramatic black and white movies from the 1940s. She spoke in the way that the OP seems to be describing, but I can’t imagine how he figures it ruins a movie! I love that accent so much, and I often try to duplicate it to make my husband laugh (he never does), but I have a hard time coming up with all of the witty, fast dialogue that goes so well with the accent. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/8 "2009-08-28T03:26:30Z")
It’s more than just an accent, it’s a style of speaking and accenting certain sounds and words. Listen to the [Empire Day Messages](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JyC6qw2D_s&feature=related) of 1923 from King George V and Queen Mary. Even though they have British accents, they have the same kind of anachronistic tone and rhythm in their speech as in the FDR video. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/9 "2009-08-28T07:11:21Z")
**Argent Towers** : That is an unnatural enunciation and cadence adopted due to the lack of good microphones until a point well into the 20th Century. It explains _part_ of this, but not all of it. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/10 "2009-08-28T07:19:03Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It’s more than just an accent, it’s a style of speaking and accenting certain sounds and words. Listen to the [Empire Day Messages](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JyC6qw2D_s&feature=related) of 1923 from King George V and Queen Mary. Even though they have British accents, they have the same kind of anachronistic tone and rhythm in their speech as in the FDR video. That’s a good example, I think, because it’s clearer (at least to me) that a large part of what we’re hearing as “odd” is the effect of someone reading slowly and clearly from a prepared script. I suspect that they may both be making an extra effort to enunciate clearly, too, for the benefit of this new-fangled wireless broadcasting technology. FDR sounds a little more relaxed and informal than George V, but I’d be surprised if he sounded quite like that when he wasn’t speaking to the nation. There _have_ been changes in accents over the last century, and in speech rhythms and delivery, but I think that for the purposes of the OP, it’s more relevant that in acting and public speaking, there’s been a shift towards a more naturalistic style of delivery. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/11 "2009-08-28T07:28:09Z")
It certainly seems to be true that people spoke differently in the first half of the 20th Century than the latter- a lot of actors seem to have used something that 1950s Public Safety Movie Narrator voice, even in Australia and New Zealand. I can only surmise that it might have been part of some sort of aim on the part of the Government/Establishment to make sure that early TV and Radio was “Respectable”, so you had people who sounded very well-spoken and educated on the air, instead of Cletus The Farmer or Juan The Mexican Immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/12 "2009-08-28T08:48:56Z")
Are we talking about a kind of [received pronunciation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation)? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/13 "2009-08-28T08:54:23Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Are we talking about a kind of [received pronunciation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation)? That’s certainly the term for the UK/Australian/NZ accent you hear in old news broadcasts and “respectable” movies. I’m not sure what the US equivalent is, though. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/14 "2009-08-28T13:40:29Z")
I’d really like the OP to watch _A Streetcar Named Desire_ and compare Vivien Leigh and Marlon Brando’s voices. ---
**Author:** ![Claire\_Beauchamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@Claire\_Beauchamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claire_Beauchamp)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/15 "2009-08-28T17:31:16Z")
There are a few things going on here. First, a lot of public figures (FDR, Julia Child) had “patrician” accents, a phenomenon that has faded somewhat in American speech. Second, if you’re talking about a movie, _acting_ and public speaking styles have changed. A lot of early actors were stage actors, where projection and diction were important as there were no microphones. So, a lot of those habits carried over to film. Also, a lot of actors took on that patrician/vaguely British-ish accent so as to appear “high class.” Add that to the fact that acting was a lot less naturalistic than it came to be in the 60’s/70’s and it’s a pretty significant shift. As for Brando vs. Leigh … Leigh WAS British, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/16 "2009-08-28T17:38:37Z")
Yeah, but that’s not what makes her sound so different from him in _Streetcar_. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/17 "2009-08-28T17:47:43Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It certainly seems to be true that people spoke differently in the first half of the 20th Century than the latter- a lot of actors seem to have used something that 1950s Public Safety Movie Narrator voice, even in Australia and New Zealand. Check out Mr. Cholmondley-Warner, and especially Grayson, for a nice parody of this speaking style. The relevant footage is from 0-50 sec. [YouTube Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx_6WekXKcM). ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/18 "2009-08-28T17:54:13Z")
I was recently in Newport, RI, where I toured [The Elms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elms_%28Newport,_Rhode_Island%29), one of the old mansion ‘cottages.’ It has an audio tour, and on it, you can hear [John Drexel III](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22drexel.html) speak about his experiences visiting there as a young man, when the original owners still lived there. I was struck by how much Drexel sounded like the aristocrats in the background of Marx Brothers movies, with the same accent that I think you’re talking about. He wasn’t an actor, and I don’t think that he was reading from a script as he is reminiscing. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/19 "2009-08-28T18:17:13Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > an unnatural enunciation and cadence due to the lack of good microphones . there’s also another unnatural aspect to the speaking in old Tv/ movies: The actors _always_ spoke one at a time. First one speaks, and then after a pause, the next actor speaks.It just doesn’t sound natural. In real life–and in all modern movies–, conversation flows: people interrupt each other, or start speaking at the same time, or one screams louder in order to be heard over the background noise., etc I assume the old way was due to the primitive sound systems, but it might also have been a carry-over from the days of theater with no microphones. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994/20 "2009-08-28T20:09:16Z")
I don’t think it’s simply a matter of having an old-time patrician accent, since both Abbott and Costello have a similar manner of speaking (e.g., [Who’s On First?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmvkO5x6Ng)), even though Abbott’s accent is more hoity-toity than Costello’s. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-movie-accent/507994.md?page=2)