# Old name of Mediterranean sea **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 15, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961 "2004-08-15T17:25:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/21 "2012-07-07T04:20:05Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > It appears that the word in Phoenician for ‘sea’ is ‘yam’. > The closest living language to Phoenician is Hebrew and the word for ‘sea’ in Hebrew is ‘yom’. No, the Hebrew word for sea is also “yam”. “Yom” means day. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/22 "2012-07-07T04:26:23Z")
The fact that the Jews called it “the great sea” (in Hebrew), according to **cmkeller** , suggests that it was simply the largest sea they knew about (after Galilee and the Dead and Red Seas, presumably, and possibly also the Black). They were not much of a seafaring people, and were situated at the far inward end of both the Mediterranean and Red seas, so probably did not have much awareness of what either opened up into. The Phoenicians and their descendants the Carthaginians, however, were very much seafaring people, and the Carthaginians were based much closer to where the Mediterranean opens into the Atlantic. It seems to me that they would almost certainly have been aware of the Atlantic, and probably aware that it was much bigger than the Mediterranean. (I believe I have heard of Phoenician or Carthaginian traders reaching as far as southern Britain.) Indeed, long before the height of Carthage, Plato was aware of the Atlantic, and seemingly had some inkling of its great size (he tells the legend of Atlantis, an island “beyond the Pillars of Hercules”, i.e., in the Atlantic, beyond Gibraltar). It thus seems to me fairly unlikely that the Carthaginians, however like their language may have been to Hebrew, would have followed the Jews in calling the Mediterranean “the great sea”. They were well aware of a much greater one. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/23 "2012-07-07T04:30:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, the Hebrew word for sea is also “yam”. “Yom” means day. :smack: **Alessan** respectful question, in Hebrew do you write out vowels or are they implied ? I was told that ancient Hebrew did not. Just curious **CAPT** ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/24 "2012-07-07T04:33:17Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > :smack: > > **Alessan** respectful question, in Hebrew do you write out vowels or are they implied ? I was told that ancient Hebrew did not. Just curious > > **CAPT** Some vowels have their own letters, and some don’t. Yam (sea) is written “ים”. Yom (day) is written “יום”. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/25 "2012-07-07T05:01:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Some vowels have their own letters, and some don’t. Yam (sea) is written “ים”. Yom (day) is written “יום”. **Alessan** if you don’t mind would you please elaborate? Ancient vs modern? Can you understand both? Read? sorry for the hijack just curious. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/26 "2012-07-07T08:48:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, the Hebrew word for sea is also “yam”. “Yom” means day. Sorry for another hijack but since this thread is a zombie anyway… Those words made me think of poetry. Are rhymes used in Hebrew? Are at the contrary ambiguities resulting from the lack of vowels exploited? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/27 "2012-07-07T09:28:56Z")
Rhymes are used extensively in Hebrew poetry and song (which is often one and the same). However, to a Hebrew speaker, there is no ambiguity. Just because the vowel isn’t always written down, that doesn’t mean we don’t know how to pronounce them, just as French speakers know which consonants not to pronounce. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/28 "2012-07-07T09:31:26Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > **Alessan** if you don’t mind would you please elaborate? Ancient vs modern? Can you understand both? Read? sorry for the hijack just curious. > > **Capt** Grammatically speaking, the Hebrew of the Bible is identical to modern Hebrew. The style may be archaic, and modern Hebrew obviously has a much larger vocabulary, but other than that, I can read the Tanakh as easily as you can read the King James Version. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/29 "2012-07-07T10:24:02Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Thus the famous seaman’s saying, _“I yam what I yam”_. I _yam_ what you did there… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/30 "2012-07-07T12:28:05Z")
I’ve been able to find that Rôsh translates as cape (as in a piece of land jutting into the sea) in Phoenician, but is rus in Punic. I’ve also found Phoenician names for a crap-load of island in the Mediterranean - island is 'y, it seems as a sort of prefix. Interestingly, the Spanish island of Ibiza stems from this use, as the Punic name was 'ybsm which meant isle of the balsam tree. I was aslo able to find that it appears that in Akkadian, the Persians referred to the Mediterranean as the “Upper Sea,” and the Phoenicians came under their rule around 540 BC or so. In fact the phrase probably refers to the Phoenicians (among others): “kings from the Upper Sea … dwelling in royal palaces” - it’s from the Cyrus Cylinder. We also have: > [@](#): > > The first mention of the name Mediterranean appears in the 7th century AD when the scholar Isidore of Seville wrote: “It is called mediterraneus because it flows through the middle of the earth.” Earlier the Ancient Egyptians referred to the sea as the Great Green, while in the Bible it is simply the Great Sea. To the Ancient Greeks it was the Sea over by Us and the Romans called Mare Nostrum, Our Sea. In Turkish it is the White Sea, in Arabic the White Middle Sea [http://www.revolve-magazine.com/home/2012/03/13/the-middle-sea/](http://www.revolve-magazine.com/home/2012/03/13/the-middle-sea/) But at least this guy claims that great green is a mistranslation and the Egyptian also translates to Middle sea: [Lingwhizt: Ancient Egyptian "Great Green" actually meant "middle sea", i.e. Mediterranean](http://lingwhizt.blogspot.com/2007/02/ancient-egyptian-great-green-actually.html) And Egypt kind of ruled the seas before the Tjeker, which you can glean by reading the Story of Wenamun, with the Phoenicians ascending afterwards in the 11th century BC or so. So I guess it wouldn’t be crazy to think that they called it the Middle Sea or Upper Sea, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/31 "2012-07-07T12:53:51Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I’ve been able to find that Rôsh translates as cape (as in a piece of land jutting into the sea) in Phoenician, but is rus in Punic. > > I’ve also found Phoenician names for a crap-load of island in the Mediterranean - island is 'y, it seems as a sort of prefix. Interestingly, the Spanish island of Ibiza stems from this use, as the Punic name was 'ybsm which meant isle of the balsam tree. “Rosh” is Hebrew for head; I can see how it could also be a euphemism for cape. “y” (or “ee”) is Hebrew for Island, too; the most famous “ee” is “Ee Shfania”, or “Island of Rabbit Hutches”. The Romans Latinized “Ee Shfania” into “Hispania”. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/32 "2012-07-07T19:08:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > “Rosh” is Hebrew for head; I can see how it could also be a euphemism for cape. I dont’ think that’s coincidence. “Cape” and “head” (e.g., Cape Hatteras, Hilton Head), are IE linguistic cognates. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/33 "2012-07-07T19:13:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, the Hebrew word for sea is also “yam”. “Yom” means day. Oh, right. _Yam Kippur_– the Sea of Atonement. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/34 "2012-07-07T19:31:35Z")
Using whatever the Greek word for _sea_ was at the time, I bet most people just called it _the sea._ ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/35 "2012-07-07T21:08:35Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Using whatever the Greek word for _sea_ was at the time, I bet most people just called it _the sea._ I guess you didn’t notice that the question was about Carthaginians, not Greeks, huh? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/36 "2012-07-07T21:10:33Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I guess you didn’t notice that the question was about Carthaginians, not Greeks, huh? He probably just forgot after 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/37 "2012-07-07T21:43:46Z")
They’re all Greek to me. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/38 "2012-07-07T23:18:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Rhymes are used extensively in Hebrew poetry and song (which is often one and the same). However, to a Hebrew speaker, there is no ambiguity. Just because the vowel isn’t always written down, that doesn’t mean we don’t know how to pronounce them, just as French speakers know which consonants not to pronounce. Of course :smack: I had just considered the written form and forgot that poems would be spoken out. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/39 "2012-07-07T23:37:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, right. _Yam Kippur_– the Sea of Atonement. Which is of course where they caught kippured herrings. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961/40 "2012-07-08T00:05:28Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Thus the famous seaman’s saying, _“I yam what I yam”_. Owwww! That hurts! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-name-of-mediterranean-sea/259961.md?page=3)