# Old South racism alive and well in Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663 "2005-06-09T22:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/41 "2005-06-10T13:42:02Z")
> [@Dag Otto](#): > > Just a guess, but might it have something to do with the fucktards who insist on flying the Confederate battle flag? For the most part, you find them in the South. It’s a symbol of the racism of the past, so it’s not such a stretch to make the connection. Oh, the flag is also a symbol of the South? Too fucking bad, it’s tainted with racism. People can pick on the South because the South is genuinely fucked up. Actually, the lenient sentences seem to have more to do with rich kids whose families have political connections than it does with racial animosity. And I have no doubt there were U.S. flags flying somewhere in the town, too, if no where else than the local post office. If you’re looking for an excuse to hate Southerners, you’ll find one, no matter how pathetic and weak it may be. And clearly you’re looking for one. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/42 "2005-06-10T13:51:02Z")
> [@](#): > > From the camera pov, it’s a little hard to tell what he was pointing though it looked closer to the noisy cricket from MIB than a handgun. The police were a good deal closer to the suspect than the cameras and should’ve been able to tell that it was a phone. And yet, when he turned around and pointed his phone at the officer again, the officer ducked, instinctively, as if he feared being shot. The man was probably saying something to the effect of, “I’m on the phone,” or “It’s just a phone,” but it’s a very, very bad idea to point anything at police officers who have guns pointed at you. I wish I could find that third video, because I seem to recall that the officers fired at him once to wound, and he didn’t even flinch, before they killed him. But since I can’t find any evidence of that, even in print, I may be misremembering. It’s been over a year since I saw these videos (until today), and I wanna think that at the time I remember watching two of the videos and thinking the police shot a man without exploring all the options, but when I saw the third video my mind was changed. Unfortunately, since I can’t find a third video, anything I say is possibly just a bad memory inventing facts. It was definitely a tragedy. His crimes (drunk and driving erratically at high speeds and running red lights) didn’t warrant the death penalty, but it’s possible the officers genuinely felt they had no choice and his race didn’t even enter their minds. I guess what I’m trying clumsily to say (there’s a reason I stay out of GD) is that I don’t think the shooting of Hudspeth is necessarily an example of Old South racism. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/43 "2005-06-10T14:10:01Z")
I think we should stop calling these people “good ole boys”, no? Yeah- I know all about the complex subtexts that that phrase can engender. :rolleyes: Too bad. In my mind as from now, “good ole boy” =racist(and every other kind of -ist), violent, ignorant asshole. Oh, wait–it always meant that, really. I am speechless as to the ruling in this case --these people are in a deranged time warp. My stomach is churning at this story. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/44 "2005-06-10T14:10:03Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > If only out of self-interest. Best chuckle of the day, so far. 😃 You \*do \* know the Texas Lege, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/45 "2005-06-10T14:22:51Z")
> [@DeadlyAccurate](#): > > I seem to recall that the officers fired at him once to wound, and he didn’t even flinch, before they killed him. FYI, officers never shoot to wound. When they draw their guns and fire them, it’s always with an intent to kill. That’s why they are only supposed to shoot their guns when there is a clear and immediate danger to their lives. What you saw (or remember you saw) may have been a bullet that hit the guy in the leg or arm, and therefore \*did \*end up just wounding him, but if the cop firing the shot was doing as he was trained to do, he was \*aiming \* at the guy’s torso. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/46 "2005-06-10T14:26:23Z")
Sorry for the continued hijack. Finally found a site with all three videos (2 & 3 with sound), so everyone can make up their own minds. [http://nationalcenterforpoliceaccountability.org/MarquiseHudspeth.html](http://nationalcenterforpoliceaccountability.org/MarquiseHudspeth.html) OK, the sequence of events as I best understand them after the chase: 1. Hudspeth pulls into the convenience store lot. You can hear yelling in the third video, though I’m not sure what they’re saying. 2. The officer points a gun at his head. Hudspeth pulls away from him and points his cell phone at another officer in a two-handed shooter’s stance. That officer fires two shots at him, though I don’t know if it was to wound or warn. 3. Hudspeth keeps walking, followed by the officers with their guns trained on him. He turns again, pointing his phone at the officer on the left, who ducks. 4. Another officer opens fire, followed immediately by ducking officer. They shoot until Hudspeth drops. I would be interested in hearing from others who disagree with my conclusions, though. If the OP would rather I start a new thread, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/47 "2005-06-10T14:51:54Z")
Speaking of Shreveport, I remember a case around '84 or '85 where a little white girl was taken away from a black foster family who had raised her for years and wanted to adopt her because it was felt that it would be inappropriate for a white kid to be raised by black parents. There was no pretense as to any other reason. I believe the case got covered on 60 Minutes and it was a topic of genuine debate in Lousiana at the time. It was discussed on the local news and by the the public as if there were actually two sides to the story. It’s been a long time and I’ve forgotten most of the details, but I do remember seeing the girl interviewed on the news begging to be allowed to stay with her “mama” and hearing some white people cluck about how the girl was “talking black” and needed to be placed with a white family so she could “learn how to act.” Some of those people were related to me, unfortunately. Of course, there was never any concern about black kids being adopted by white families ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/48 "2005-06-10T14:53:20Z")
Did the little girl get returned to her parents? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/49 "2005-06-10T14:58:46Z")
> [@Coffee Manic](#): > > A man approached me, asked about my car. Nodded a couple of times, then asked if I eat meat. When I stammered out an affirmative, he walked away, got into his truck and drove off. I think I’m missing something here. Perhaps it is my own bigotry and prejudices at work, but when I think of good ol’ boy racist Texas rednecks, the Vegan lifestyle is not uppermost in my mind. Was the guy wearing hemp sandals? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/50 "2005-06-10T15:01:02Z")
> [@DeadlyAccurate](#): > > Did the little girl get returned to her parents? I actually don’t know. I went off to Florida for Basic Training while the story was still going on and I never managed to get a follow up. I believe she got placed with a white family at least temporarily but I never learned what happened after that. Maybe somebody else remembers the story. It’s something I’ve always wondered about. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/51 "2005-06-10T15:08:12Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I think I’m missing something here. The Seventh Day Adventists are a conservative Christian religious denomination with some quirks, one of which is vegetarianism (although not veganism, AFAIK). ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/52 "2005-06-10T15:16:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Of course, there was never any concern about black kids being adopted by white families Well, perhaps not in Shreveport, but there have been cases of black children being removed arbitrarily from white foster and/or adoptive parents for racial reasons. The National Association of Black Social Workers (can you imagine the uproar if someone tried to organize a National Association of White Social Workers?) once condemned interracial adoptions and may still. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/53 "2005-06-10T15:23:13Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > The Seventh Day Adventists are a conservative Christian religious denomination with some quirks, one of which is vegetarianism (although not veganism, AFAIK). Ah. For a moment there, I had a vision of a fat redneck in a tie-dyed shirt in a red pickup saying “Send the n\*\*\*\*\*s back to Africa, man. Love the Earth, man.” Continuing to entertain this image would have resulted in a stroke for sure. Man. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/54 "2005-06-10T15:49:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, who in that town spoke out against that racist and ignorant Mayor, those racist goons that did the attacks, or condemned the Jury for a too lenient verdict? From the article: > [@](#): > > “There’s people down here doing things to dogs, and they get more than a year in prison,” said Lue Wilson, 58, Johnson’s cousin and legal guardian. “You’ll never get a jury in Cass County to convict a white man for doing something to a black man.” > … > The Texarkana Gazette, the biggest newspaper in the region, wrote an editorial last month criticizing the light sentences imposed on Johnson’s attackers. > > “Sad to say,” the paper wrote, “most of us agree that if the circumstances were reversed - if four blacks had perpetrated this crime on a white person - things would have turned out differently.” > … > “I think it’s unfair to the county to make it a total black-and-white issue,” said Tina Richardson, the assistant district attorney who prosecuted the case and Cass County’s only black lawyer. "I know the stigma at this point is that in Cass County it looks like whites are greatly prejudiced against blacks. But you have good and bad no matter what area of the country you’re living in. > > “There were just as many if not more whites who were displeased at the outcome” of the Johnson case as were content with it, Richardson added. So yeah–people in town spoke out against it. Especially the black people in town, whom, I notice, are getting ignored in the question of whether this town should be condemned. When you condemn a town for its violence against black people, don’t forget that the town is made up of black and white people, and that you’re condemning them all. (Note also that the jury had three black members. I don’t know what that means, but it’s interesting to me). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/55 "2005-06-10T15:57:53Z")
It may mean they realized if they didn’t go with the party line, they too may find themselves on an Anthill… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/56 "2005-06-10T16:07:30Z")
Yeah, **holmes** , that occurred to me as well. Or it may mean that according to jury instructions, the case didn’t rise to felony level. Or it may mean that they’re a bunch of self-haters. Or it could mean that the victim was a real jerk, and small-town attitudes took over, with jurors deciding he got what was coming to him. Given the fact that the jury recommended suspended sentences, and the judge overruled them to provide some jailtime for the criminals, I’m guessing that the problem wasn’t with jury instructions (but I could be wrong). Dunno whether they black folks on the jury were intimidated, or if they genuinely believe that what was done wasn’t that bad. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/57 "2005-06-10T16:08:57Z")
There were two different juries and a total of three jurors were black but the story doesn’t say how they were split up. It’s not hard to believe that a lone black juror, or even two, might feel intimidated enough to go along with a couple of soft convictions. Especially since black folks have been known to be found shot dead or hanging from trees in that same town. ---
**Author:** ![Emony\_Dax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Emony\_Dax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emony_Dax)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/58 "2005-06-10T16:11:59Z")
**Zoe** said: > [@](#): > > what percentage of Southerners fly the Confederate battle flag? In my current town, just south of Austin, there was a sizeable protest when a few years ago the school district finally forbade the display of the Confederate flag at school functions. The school teams are known as the Rebels. I’ve lived in Texas my whole life. My dad still used the n-word until my sister-in-law finally had the guts to tell him to stop saying it in front of her kids. Good on her, bad on me for not being brave enough to do it myself ☹ It was perfectly acceptable for his generation to use that word and to view blacks as second-class citizens. I have never, ever heard anyone from my generation use that word; the worst I’ve heard was a whispered reference to “that colored girl” from a 7 year old classmate in south Texas. My point is, the culture down here is shifting, albeit slowly and reluctently in some cases, but it **is** changing. I hope by the time my kids have kids Texas will no longer be hated and reviled as a place of racial intolerance. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/59 "2005-06-10T16:15:21Z")
[Texarkana Gazette News Story](http://www.texarkanagazette.com/articles/2005/06/02/local_news/news/news03.txt) “A Cass County jury last month decided not to convict Hicks of aggravated assault and injury to a disabled person for the September 2003 beating of Billy Ray Johnson, 44, of Linden. The mostly white jury also rejected prosecutors’ claim that the beating-at the prompting of Hicks to codefendant Christopher Colt Amox-was racially motivated.” [Texarkana Gazette Editorial](http://www.texarkanagazette.com/articles/2005/05/14/local_news/opinion/opinions01.txt) "The defendants and their supporters undoubtedly will find doing any time to be harsh. Yet, they will be free again in a few weeks, to pick up their lives where they left off. Johnson had a good measure of freedom until he was punched in the head, then dumped without any immediate medical care. Now he needs help to walk, talk and take care of his daily needs. Before the pasture party, he was restricted only by the limitations of his mind. Now he is further shackled by the injuries he sustained at the hands of the first offenders. That situation make us deaf to the whining of the white boys." ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/60 "2005-06-10T16:18:08Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There were two different juries and a total of three jurors were black Are you sure they were two different juries? It reads to me as if one jury tried all the charges. (Obviously, I may be missing something). Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663.md?page=4)