# Old South racism alive and well in Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663 "2005-06-09T22:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/81 "2005-06-10T21:35:33Z")
Uh oh, I think I’ve been whooshed. Given the lead-thick irony of your statement, Lamar Mundane, it is now obvious to me that you were joking: > [@](#): > > There is a very pervasive “us” and 'them" attitude [among those Southerners]. It just isn’t that way in other places [among we Northerners]. Good one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/82 "2005-06-10T21:42:56Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Or like not reading the FBI’s [Hate Crimes Statistics Report](http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/03hc.pdf) for 2003 for racially motivated hate crimes, with 154 in Texas and 152 in Minnesotta. However, this supposes equal reporting of hate crimes in both states. I think the case that inspired this thread demonstrates that an incident that would cause a DA in Minnesota to come down like a ton of bricks is written off as boyish horseplay in Texas. Have you ever been in Minnesota? Them squareheads don’t take no mess and if you fuck around they will haul your ass off to jail. Politely, though. After all, Minnesota is Canada with handguns. (drop, who has lived in Minnesota, Illinois, and Virginia and has some idea what he’s talking about) ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/83 "2005-06-10T21:43:51Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Well, since we’re sharing anecdotes, the most bigotry I ever encountered was in Philadelphia, Boston, and Minneapolis. The worst bigotry I’ve encountered was in Wisconsin. The most pervasive bigotry I have encountered in in the deep south. BTW, I shared no anecdotes in my post. Those were impressions. And I’m not a Northerner. I think I’ve told you this before - You’re so _cute_ when you’re condescending. ::pinches Liberal’s cheeks:: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/84 "2005-06-10T21:46:55Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > The worst bigotry I’ve encountered was in Wisconsin. The most pervasive bigotry I have encountered in in the deep south. Good and useful distinction. (drop, who has never met an anecdote he didn’t like) ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/85 "2005-06-10T21:53:17Z")
Yeah. Racism is bad here. We try to correct it. Occasionally we get it [right](http://www.courttv.com/archive/trials/brewer/092399_pm_sentence_ctv.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/86 "2005-06-10T21:53:23Z")
Where did that smiley come from? According to that Hate Crimes report, Alabama and Mississippi each had only one incident that year. I think the reporting standards vary greatly from state to state, and therefore the data isn’t very useful. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/87 "2005-06-10T21:54:09Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > The worst bigotry I’ve encountered was in Wisconsin. You must have met one of my odder relatives. Or some of my patients. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/88 "2005-06-10T22:07:53Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > You’re aware the American Nazi party has its HQ in Illinois? I hate Illinois Nazis! ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/89 "2005-06-10T22:08:33Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > Where did that smiley come from? > > According to that Hate Crimes report, Alabama and Mississippi each had only one incident that year. I think the reporting standards vary greatly from state to state, and therefore the data isn’t very useful. 1. the smiley came when you typed : then typed a P right next to it. thusly 😛 (😉 ) 1. not just the reporting (as in to the UCI) standards, but of course, the prosecutional standards as well. As is obvious in the case of the OP, it wasn’t sufficient that racial slurs were used and the perps were of a different ethnicity, even though certainly those can be indicators of hate crime. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/90 "2005-06-10T22:16:00Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Trying to get an otherwise reasonable, and personally non-racist, southerner to admit that there’s more racism in the south than in other parts of the country is like pulling Superman’s teeth. About like trying to get a Californian to admit that there isn’t too much of a difference between the amount of racism in the South and elsewhere. Yes, you don’t see many cross burnings in San Francisco (or NYC, etc.), but there is virulent racism in pockets spread all across the country. It’s just not “Old South” racism when a black guy is shot 3 dozen times after being sodomized with a toilet plunger when it happens in New York City. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/91 "2005-06-10T22:17:00Z")
> [@wring](#): > > 1. the smiley came when you typed : then typed a p right next to it. thusly 😛 goddam coding. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Coffee\_Manic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Coffee\_Manic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffee_Manic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/92 "2005-06-11T00:12:17Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Trying to get an otherwise reasonable, and personally non-racist, southerner to admit that there’s more racism in the south than in other parts of the country is like pulling Superman’s teeth. A personally non-racist Southerner checking in, and I really can’t say that there is more racism in the South. It’s rampant here in rural Texas, yes, but my personal experience has been that it was just as rampant in Chicago, DC, and Detroit. In the military, where people from all over the country were gathered together, racism was everywhere (a guy in another department was called “boondocker” because he was black and he was a boot [slang for “bootcamp” or a new, inexperienced guy].) Sorry, Max, but I’ve seen it all over. DeadlyAccurate, thanks for the links to the Hudspeth videos. ---
**Author:** ![Coffee\_Manic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Coffee\_Manic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffee_Manic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/93 "2005-06-11T00:33:31Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > People feel it perfectly acceptable to comment to other white people about “those people” or “those kind”. There is a very pervasive “us” and 'them" attitude. It just isn’t that way in other places. Personally, I’ve never heard anyone refer to “those people” or “those kind” when referring to blacks or Mexicans or whatever race is being slurred. People normally just come out and say who they mean, and they’re not shy about tossing out the slurs in casual conversation. I have noticed, however, that many, many people who use the slurs are teaching their children _not_ to say them – mostly, I think, to avoid being embarrassed in public. Yes, I agree that there is more of an “us and them” attitude in the South than in most other places, but it isn’t limited to race. Religion, for instance, is a huge divider. Also, try being a young white man with long hair in many small Southern towns – you’ll hear the sexual slurs, you’ll be called names, you’ll be detained by the police, and it’s very possible that you’ll get beaten up. Luckily, that’s changing, too, as those who were young adults during the 60s and 70s (damn hippies!) are becoming the community leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/94 "2005-06-11T00:40:01Z")
??? Since when is “boondocker” a racist term? When I was younger, the boondocks was the distant suburbs or countryside. ---
**Author:** ![Coffee\_Manic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Coffee\_Manic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffee_Manic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/95 "2005-06-11T00:46:31Z")
A “boondocker” is the term for the clunky, black utility boots worn by enlisted personnel in the Navy. When used as a racial slur, someone (often someone from Vermont or California or New York, but just as often someone from Texas or Alabama or Georgia) would generally say something along the lines of “He’s a boondocker. Know why? 'Cuz he’s black and he’s a boot!” ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/96 "2005-06-11T00:56:07Z")
(shakes head) The endless inventive namecalling of white conservatives never ceases to amaze me. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/97 "2005-06-11T00:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > **Unwritten Nocturne** : Zoe, pointing out that bad shit happens elsewhere does not negate it happening here. \ > [@](#): > > You need to stop being so defensive and admit that we have a problem here and that it is not going away. Where did I say that racism elsewhere negated racism in the South? To the contrary, did you miss my posts? > [@](#): > > What happened in that community was horribly cruel. The four young people involved should have been tried as adults if they had not arrived at majority. The decision of the jury was shameful. The mayor’s words are inexcusable. > [@](#): > > Nothing can excuse the brutality of racism wherever it has existed or still exists. > [@](#): > > Bigotry is ugly in all of its forms. > [@](#): > > Just consider this an “editorial” from an eleventh generation Southerner who has tried to do my part to make things better. > [@](#): > > What have you done in your life personally to atone for the evils of racism and the perpetuation of stereotypes? When push comes to shove, isn’t that what makes the real difference? > [@](#): > > _Do something_. But I disagree with you that it won’t get better. I’ve watched it get enormously better over the last half century. It’s not happening nearly fast enough, but it is easier to see the changes over time. I’m a Tennessean who married someone from Montgomery. I’ve seen _some_ of what you are talking about both here in Tennessee and in Alabama. But it is the exception to the rule. I literally cannot remember the last time that I heard a derogatory term used for African-Americans. (I did lose a friend over it long ago.) I know of one person in South Nashville that has a Confederate flag in his yard. I haven’t seen any tattoos, but I have seen the occasional bumper sticker or t-shirt. There is a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest on private property next to the interstate. It is the subject of much ridicule by locals. I thought that most people from Alabama would be thrilled to have either Shaud or Carnell Williams for dinner – just not both. My point has not been that there is no racism in the South. My point has been that when you label racism as “Southern,” you tend to ignore the racial discrimination that is elsewhere _and_ you promote a stereotype of the typical Southerner as a racist bigot. \*\* That is promoting ignorance.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Coffee\_Manic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Coffee\_Manic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffee_Manic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/98 "2005-06-11T00:58:04Z")
White? Conservative? You are much mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/99 "2005-06-11T01:05:37Z")
California + Vermont + Georgia + Alabama + Texas + Navy personnel + “boondocker” as a racial slur = someone who’s not a white conservative? Added up okay to me. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663/100 "2005-06-11T01:07:40Z")
Where in TN? My parents live in Memphis and hear racial shit every day–they are white–my Dad teaches at UT. When I visit, the Confederate flag seems to be everywhere (but then, it stands out for me–I am not used to seeing it on a daily basis). Not eveyone in the South is racist-not even close. I live near one of the most racially divided cities in America (Chicago)–but even here I don’t hear what I do down in Memphis. An 80 y/o woman MIGHT say(with referring to non-whites as"colored", instead of AA or black)–but sadly, she is more likely to just say “nigger” down in Memphis. Up here, she would more likely say black. Just my experience, which might not be generaliz-able. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-south-racism-alive-and-well-in-texas/307663.md?page=6)