# Old used car ad. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 5, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017 "2018-11-05T16:55:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/41 "2018-11-09T20:15:12Z")
[https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=800&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=OenlW63LBIvVjwTE9pioAQ&q=VW+ad%2C+two+family&oq=VW+ad%2C+two+family&gs\_l=img.3...253741.258323..258807...0.0..0.106.885.8j2......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0j0i8i30j0i24.R67sVmkLDeA#imgrc=K5HlXbF5eMUGcM:](https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=800&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=OenlW63LBIvVjwTE9pioAQ&q=VW+ad%2C+two+family&oq=VW+ad%2C+two+family&gs_l=img.3...253741.258323..258807...0.0..0.106.885.8j2......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0j0i8i30j0i24.R67sVmkLDeA#imgrc=K5HlXbF5eMUGcM:) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/42 "2018-11-10T16:06:31Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > But the funny thing about the side mirrors is that they still have a blind spot. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > With a properly adjusted side mirror, you can always tell – the car, or a portion of it (enough of it to know it’s there) will first appear in the rearview mirror, then in the sideview mirror, then in your peripheral vision. Most people don’t adjust them to do this, but instead adjust them so that they can see the rear corner of their own car. This is largely useless, as you already know where that is – it’s the car approaching beside you that you really need to see. [Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20111353&postcount=41) is the post I made in a thread about blind spots that provides the details about the technique **Gary T** is referring to. > [@wolfpup](#): > > We had a discussion in another thread about this. It may or may not be true for all vehicles; personally I don’t buy it because it obviously depends on the field of view of each of the three mirrors, which in turn depends on a variety of variables. I’m pretty sure the engineers who design cars are capable of positioning and sizing them to work properly (without blind spots when properly adjusted) for the vast majority of drivers. As I mention in the post I linked to above, in the dozens of vehicles I’ve driven, I’ve never found one that had an unavoidable blind spot. > [@](#): > > In any case, adjusting the outside mirrors so a portion of your own vehicle is just barely visible isn’t useless, IME, because it provides a calibration reference point, telling you that someone or some thing didn’t bump or readjust the mirrors and they’re adjusted as you expect them to be. This is less obvious if there’s no reference point and a maladjusted mirror would be especially dangerous if the driver is happily assuming that there’s no blind spot. So you’re saying that one is better off with a blind spot 100% of the time rather than risk the slight chance that your mirrors have been bumped. :dubious: I can tell you that with my mirrors adjusted the right way (no blind spot) it has usually been fairly easy to notice if they’ve been bumped, and a quick movement of my head (against the left window or over to the centerline of the car, depending on which mirror) confirms it. Hardly the danger you seem to think it is. > [@](#): > > It’s just good practice anyway to turn your head to check for traffic before changing lanes, and though it’s been about 300 years since I took my driver’s test, I do believe that around here, anyway, they will fail you if you change lanes without doing this. I don’t think claiming that your car has awesome mirrors and no blind spot is going to be a winning argument! 🙂 There are definite risks to the head twist as well: people are more likely to involuntarily jerk the steering wheel when they do it. I’d be interested in a cite for your claim that it is still a requirement in driving tests. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/43 "2018-11-10T16:42:40Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > [Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20111353&postcount=41) is the post I made in a thread about blind spots that provides the details about the technique **Gary T** is referring to. > > I’m pretty sure the engineers who design cars are capable of positioning and sizing them to work properly (without blind spots when properly adjusted) for the vast majority of drivers. As I mention in the post I linked to above, in the dozens of vehicles I’ve driven, I’ve never found one that had an unavoidable blind spot. FMVSS 111 governs the standards for rearward visibility, and specifies the minimum field of view the mirrors are supposed to cover. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/44 "2018-11-10T17:03:15Z")
How good were the side mirrors back then? I seem to remember them being rather small. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/45 "2018-11-10T17:50:35Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > There are definite risks to the head twist as well: people are more likely to involuntarily jerk the steering wheel when they do it. I’d be interested in a cite for your claim that it is still a requirement in driving tests. I’m sure there are many differences among different jurisdictions, but to answer the request for a cite, this is from the Ontario Ministry of Transportation official Driver’s Handbook, used for driver training and to communicate traffic laws and establish the baseline standards used for testing: Here are the steps for making a lane change: [ul] [li]Check your mirrors for a space in traffic where you can enter safely.[/li][li] **Check your blind spot by looking over your shoulder in the direction of the lane change.** Be especially careful to check for bicycles and other small vehicles. Signal that you want to move left or right.[/li][li]Check again to make sure the way is clear and that no one is coming too fast from behind or from two lanes over on a multi-lane road.[/li][li]Steer gradually into the new lane. Do not slow down, maintain the same speed or gently increase it.[/li][/ul] > **[Changing positions | Safe and Responsible Driving](https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/changing-positions)** > > The online version of the Ontario’s driver’s handbook. Use this book to study for your G1 driver’s licence, test your knowledge, and prepare for your Level 2 road test. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/46 "2018-11-10T18:41:08Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m sure there are many differences among different jurisdictions, but to answer the request for a cite, this is from the Ontario Ministry of Transportation official Driver’s Handbook, used for driver training and to communicate traffic laws and establish the baseline standards used for testing: > Here are the steps for making a lane change: > [ul] > [li]Check your mirrors for a space in traffic where you can enter safely.[/li][li] **Check your blind spot by looking over your shoulder in the direction of the lane change.** Be especially careful to check for bicycles and other small vehicles. Signal that you want to move left or right.[/li][li]Check again to make sure the way is clear and that no one is coming too fast from behind or from two lanes over on a multi-lane road.[/li][li]Steer gradually into the new lane. Do not slow down, maintain the same speed or gently increase it.[/li][/ul] > [Changing positions | Safe and Responsible Driving | ontario.ca](https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/changing-positions) Oh, well, Canada? Say no more. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/47 "2018-11-10T20:41:30Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Oh, well, Canada? Say no more. 😃 I know you’re just joking, but out of curiosity I thought I would check the rules in a familiar nearby state. The first state I looked at, Michigan, contains the following text in the official _Driving Skills Test Study Guide_ in the section on “Driving Skills Test Scoring Standards” (emphasis mine): When changing lanes on an expressway or on a rural highway: [ul] [li]Drive at a speed approaching the flow of traffic to ensure a safe lane change.[/li][li]Check traffic in all directions. **Check blind spots by looking over your shoulder before changing lanes.** [/li][li]Activate your turn signal to alert other drivers that you intend to change lanes.[/li][li]Yield to any vehicles occupying the lane you are merging into.[/li][li]Merge smoothly into the next lane; keep your vehicle under control and maintain speed.[/li][li]Allow proper spacing between you and the vehicles in front of and behind you.[/li][li]Cancel your turn signal after completely merging into the lane.[/li][/ul] > **[Driving-Skills-Test-Study-Guide.pdf](https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Project/Websites/sos/01preston/Driving-Skills-Test-Study-Guide.pdf?rev=2d431a4e9d034d5699fc8f94c9bc1154)** Given the context (“Test Scoring Standards”) this is actually even more explicit than the Ontario handbook that it’s not just a recommendation but a criterion in the driver’s test. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/48 "2018-11-11T14:13:33Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > My first new car was a 1991 Dodge Colt. I got one with AC and no radio (it cost around 7K, IIRC). I moved to Brooklyn a year after I bought it, and sold it since insurance was.over 2k per year. An old farmer gave me enough for it to pay it off. Hey, same here! In fact, my Dad bought TWO 1991 Dodge Colts that day…a 5-speed manual for me (with a/c and both side mirrors), and a 4-speed manual for my brother whom was missing…a passenger side mirror! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017/49 "2018-11-12T04:31:27Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > [li]Check traffic in all directions. **Check blind spots by looking over your shoulder before changing lanes.** [/li] > Given the context (“Test Scoring Standards”) this is actually even more explicit than the Ontario handbook that it’s not just a recommendation but a criterion in the driver’s test. Of course, one could argue that with properly adjusted side mirrors there are no blind spots to check, making looking over the shoulder non-applicable. Not that you’d win an argument with a state driving test judge, but the point has merit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-used-car-ad/824017.md?page=2)