# Old West bullshit facts. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612 "2018-06-23T09:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/21 "2018-06-23T20:10:29Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Such a law was central to the story of _[Unforgiven](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105695/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt)_. And there was a Wyatt Earp movie where there was a sign saying guns were prohibited. I think there was a ban in _Silverado_ too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/22 "2018-06-23T20:29:11Z")
> [@vperry1](#): > > I know movies, dime store novels, books and passed down folk lore contributed to what we belive to be facts about the Wild West. But with all the experts, historians and documentation out there, why do people still believe the hype? > > A few things that stick out me me are: > > 1. Wild Bill Hickok was killed holding aces and eights/the dead man’s hand. Um, nope. No proof whatsoever, yet still believed as fact. People, cards, drinks, tables and chairs went flying. Oh, but we know exactly what cards he held??? > > 2. Val Kilmer, er, I mean Doc Holliday killed Johhnny Ringo. Nope again. 1. Maybe, why not? wiki “According to a book by Western historian Carl W. Breihan, the cards were retrieved from the floor by a man named Neil Christy, who then passed them on to his son. The son, in turn, told Mr. Breihan of the composition of the hand. “Here is an exact identity of these cards as told to me by Christy’s son: the ace of diamonds with a heel mark on it; the ace of clubs; the two black eights, clubs and spades, and the queen of hearts with a small drop of Hickock’s blood on it.”[6]” 2. One of three theories, certainly possible: > **[Johnny Ringo | Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Ringo#Death)** > > During Tombstone's Fourth of July festivities, Ringo drank heavily. He left town two days later, taking several bottles of liquor for the ride. Deputy Billy Breakenridge saw him two days later near Dial's Ranch in the South Pass of the Dragoon Mountains. He later wrote that "Ringo was very drunk, reeling in the saddle." He encouraged Ringo to follow him back to the Goodrich Ranch, but "he was drunk and stubborn and went on his way. I think this was the last time he was seen alive." At about 3p BS Facts : That Cowboys wore bowlers not ten gallon or stetsons- false, promulgated mostly by the fact that cowboys did love to dress up and get their pictures taken in suits with a bowler hat. But Teddy wrote that anyone wearing a bowler would get teased and quite possible the hat shot right off his head. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/23 "2018-06-23T20:32:52Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Gunfight showdowns- two men challenging each other to fight in the street - are the invention of pulp novels. They probably never happened (why would they?). One town did stage them for people passing through as a publicity stunt. > > Many big towns banned guns. You were required to turn them in while visiting; you’d get yours back when you left. “Wild Bill” Hickok) vs Davis Tutt in Springfield, Missouri. Luke Short vs Jim Courtright and a few others. They were rare but they happened. Yes, they would take them behind the bar, usually. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/24 "2018-06-23T20:35:15Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > They had stricter gun laws than they do today. Everybody didn’t walk around with six shooters holstered to their sides. Not at all. Look on the range or in smaller towns everyone carried or owned a gun. Yes, mostly in larger towns you couldn’t carry one around, sure, just like today. But no one thought twice about seeing someone on the trail carrying a six-gun and a winchester on their horse. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/25 "2018-06-23T20:38:59Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > A couple that bug me: > > 1. White cowboys, and only white cowboys. Do a little research and you’ll find that huge numbers of cowboys were either Mexican or black. > > 2. Cowboy hats. Most wore whatever they could find that had a brim - bowlers, derbys, skimmers, whatever. Stetsons were popular but very expensive. Your run-of-the-mill ranch hand couldn’t afford them. > > 3. Bank robberies everywhere. Research shows that there were only about 8 true bank robberies, _in 40 years across 15 states_. 1. Yep. 2.Nope, wear a bowler hat and maybe get if shot off. Teddy wrote that. 3. Well, maybe. Not many statistics are available. But that same cite that claims that also claims everyone carried guns: > **[Bank Robberies in the West](https://mythsoftheamericanwest.wordpress.com/2015/11/12/bank-robberies/)** > > Bank Robberies in the West When most people think of the American West, they think of violence, outlaws, and robberies. Butch Cassidy was one of the most famous outlaws in the American West. He beg… _Historians believe there were less bank robberies in the American West because most of the people carried weapons, so potential robbers were always vulnerable. Criminals don’t want to get hurt undertaking their illegal acts, so they aren’t as likely to pick targets that appear to be willing to fight back._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/26 "2018-06-23T20:40:05Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Possibly this is from the few times a year when either a cattle drive came through and/or the cowboys were on their yearly binge of spending their pay. And then, often they tried taking the guns away. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/27 "2018-06-23T20:46:58Z")
Semi-related: Doc Holliday’s gravestone in Glenwood Springs doesn’t really mark his grave. He’s buried somewhere in Linwood Cemetery but nobody knows exactly where. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/28 "2018-06-23T21:07:11Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Semi-related: Doc Holliday’s gravestone in Glenwood Springs doesn’t really mark his grave. He’s buried somewhere in Linwood Cemetery but nobody knows exactly where. Interesting mystery: [http://www.tombstonetimes.com/stories/where.html](http://www.tombstonetimes.com/stories/where.html) ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/29 "2018-06-23T21:57:35Z")
I remember a comic where a town hired a young guy who wore a suit and bowler as a deputy. When the boys at the local saloon gave him the business he cleaned house; it turned out he was a former featherweight champ from Philly. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/30 "2018-06-23T22:02:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > And there was a Wyatt Earp movie where there was a sign saying guns were prohibited. I think there was a ban in _Silverado_ too. Yes, and Hugh O’Brien was constantly reminding out-of-towners of the law in _The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp_. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/31 "2018-06-23T22:14:27Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > 1. White cowboys, and only white cowboys. Do a little research and you’ll find that huge numbers of cowboys were either Mexican or black. Certainly true in the golden age of Westerns in the 1950s and 1960s (although even then there were often Mexican characters). But since the 1980s at least (e.g. Silverado) most depictions of the Old West have included black characters. ---
**Author:** ![Majestic\_Lee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Majestic\_Lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Majestic_Lee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/32 "2018-06-23T22:26:36Z")
Those saloon bar fights where folk get chairs and/or bottles broken over their heads have got to be fictional. Quite often the victim gets up and carries on fighting. In real life they’re either going to be seriously injured or dead. And as for the way gunshot wounds are portrayed… ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/33 "2018-06-23T22:33:08Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yes, and Hugh O’Brien was constantly reminding out-of-towners of the law in _The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp_. Movie and TV representations of Mr. Earp’s life seem to have left out his seedier side: > **[Was Wyatt Earp A Pimp?](http://www.americancowboychronicles.com/2011/08/old-west-wyatt-earp-was-he-pimp-in.html)** ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/34 "2018-06-23T23:31:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Certainly true in the golden age of Westerns in the 1950s and 1960s (although even then there were often Mexican characters). But since the 1980s at least (e.g. Silverado) most depictions of the Old West have included black characters. I remember a letter to the editor of \*TV Guide \*back in the 60s, when blacks were showing up on TV. Someone was complaining that you couldn’t put Black people in everything, with the line, “There were no Black cowboys. That was a ridiculous as portraying a white slave.” _TV Guide_ responded that after the Civil War, many freed slaves went west to work as cowboys. And the word “slave” derives from “Slav,” who were often enslaved in the Middle Ages and were white. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/35 "2018-06-23T23:54:56Z")
In 1965, Raymond St. Jacque played Simon Blake in season 8 of _Rawhide_. He was the first African-American actor to have a recurring role in a TV Western series. > **[Raymond St. Jacques](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_St._Jacques)** > > Raymond St. Jacques (born James Arthur Johnson; March 1, 1930 – August 27, 1990) was an American actor, director and producer whose career spanned over thirty years on stage, film and television. St. Jacques is noted as the first African American actor to appear in a regular role on a western series, portraying Simon Blake on the eighth season of Rawhide (1965–1966). > St. Jacques was born James Arthur Johnson in Hartford, Connecticut. He had a sister, Barbara Ann. Shortly after his birth, his p... ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/36 "2018-06-24T01:54:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That Cowboys wore bowlers not ten gallon or stetsons- false, promulgated mostly by the fact that cowboys did love to dress up and get their pictures taken in suits with a bowler hat. But Teddy wrote that anyone wearing a bowler would get teased and quite possible the hat shot right off his head. > [@DrDeth](#): > > 2.Nope, wear a bowler hat and maybe get if shot off. Teddy wrote that. > \* Teddy who? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/37 "2018-06-24T04:31:23Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Teddy who? Roosevelt. In his memoirs about Ranching & hunting there. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/38 "2018-06-24T04:57:38Z")
> [@Majestic\_Lee](#): > > Those saloon bar fights where folk get chairs and/or bottles broken over their heads have got to be fictional. Quite often the victim gets up and carries on fighting. In real life they’re either going to be seriously injured or dead. And as for the way gunshot wounds are portrayed… “It’s only a flesh wound.” So you just wrap a bandana around it and you are good to go. If it was really bad, the girl in the gingham dress might need to rip off a sleeve. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/39 "2018-06-24T05:34:25Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > In 1965, Raymond St. Jacque played Simon Blake in season 8 of _Rawhide_. He was the first African-American actor to have a recurring role in a TV Western series. > > [Raymond St. Jacques - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_St._Jacques) Interesting. I’m surprised it was that early. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/40 "2018-06-24T14:03:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > 1. Bank robberies everywhere. Research shows that there were only about 8 true bank robberies, _in 40 years across 15 states_. What about train robberies? You see it in movies a lot, where a gang of outlaws on horses will block the tracks to force a train to stop so they can rob it. In reality I would think a train running at full speed would just plow right through anyone stupid enough to try that, rather than stop. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612.md?page=3)