# Old West bullshit facts. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612 "2018-06-23T09:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/81 "2018-06-25T20:59:52Z")
> [@vperry1](#): > > Movies usuall portray a twenty minute gunfight in a wide open lot. The shooting lasted thirty seconds and the lot was no bigger than your living room. From **[Appaloosa](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800308/?ref_=nv_sr_1)** (2008): \*[after a shoot-out- the protagonists are down, but surprisingly, alive] **Everett Hitch** : That was quick. **Virgil Cole** : Yeah, everybody could shoot. \* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/82 "2018-06-25T22:06:48Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Forgive me, but until a real historian convinces me I’m wrong, I’m not sure that the best source of actual working farmhand’s views on what hats were cool and uncool (and the consequences thereof) is really a New York-born-and-raised, Harvard-educated, writer/lawyer/politician who made a career out of portraying himself to Easteners as El Muy Macho. Who actually lived there for three years and ran a working ranch, not to mentioned hunted before and after that? Look, he was a period & respected writer. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/83 "2018-06-25T22:32:25Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > _Some_ places had stricter gun laws than you will find in much of the US today…but you are right that everybody didn’t walk around wearing a holstered revolver. Rifles and shotguns were preferred for most purposes. Which jammed or misfired more? I thought smaller guns jammed a lot more often back then than rifles. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/84 "2018-06-25T22:36:53Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Forgive me, but until a real historian convinces me I’m wrong, What’s your source on cowboys wearing bowlers when they were working? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/85 "2018-06-25T22:43:51Z")
> [@vperry1](#): > > The gunfight didn’t take place at the O.K. Corral, but on the corners of Fremont and 3rd streets, a whole block away. > > Movies usuall portray a twenty minute gunfight in a wide open lot. The shooting lasted thirty seconds and the lot was no bigger than your living room. It’s portrayed pretty much like that in the movie Tombstone. It’s chaotic, not what various characters expected, and over quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/86 "2018-06-25T22:50:03Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What’s your source on cowboys wearing bowlers when they were working? Whether you want to trust Wikipedia is up to you, but [what they say here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowler_hat#Outside_the_British_Isles) is the same as what many articles say. I’ve not seen many authentic photos of working cowboys, I don’t know if many exist, but it doesn’t seem to be controversial that bowlers were common, and that Stetsons were rare or non-existant until after the frontier period. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/87 "2018-06-25T23:17:20Z")
Louis L’Amour books are fairly accurate depictions of life in the old west. He lived that life, for a short time, as a teenager in the 1920’s. He had the opportunity to meet and hear stories from older men that had lived in the West in the 1880’s, 90’s, and 00’s. I’ve read his autobiography three times. He had a fascinating life. L’Amour spent a lot of time researching the old west. He visited many places where real events happened. Wikipedia has a good bio and the various jobs he held before becoming an author. > **[Louis L'Amour](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_L'Amour)** > > Louis Dearborn L'Amour (/ˈluːi ləˈmʊər/; né LaMoore; March 22, 1908 – June 10, 1988) was an American novelist and short story writer. His books consisted primarily of Western novels (though he called his work "frontier stories"); however, he also wrote historical fiction (The Walking Drum), science fiction (The Haunted Mesa), non-fiction (Frontier), as well as poetry and short-story collections. Many of his stories were made into films. His books remain popular and most have gone through multi... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/88 "2018-06-26T00:44:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Whether you want to trust Wikipedia is up to you, but [what they say here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowler_hat#Outside_the_British_Isles) is the same as what many articles say. I’ve not seen many authentic photos of working cowboys, I don’t know if many exist, but it doesn’t seem to be controversial that bowlers were common, and that Stetsons were rare or non-existant until after the frontier period. Bowlers were worn by men who were businessmen- bankers, storekeepers, etc. Cowboys wore slouch hats or Cavalry hat or wide brimmed straw hats or even sombreros. Stetsons came a little later and were the mark of a ranch owner, etc. Google cowboy photographs: [https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjQzfSAi\_DbAhWSHzQIHUEiABUQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftruewestmagazine.com%2F100-best-historical-photos-american-old-west%2F&psig=AOvVaw3n3HnhZ8vK1DkrDia4Zj9i&ust=1530059772435404](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjQzfSAi_DbAhWSHzQIHUEiABUQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftruewestmagazine.com%2F100-best-historical-photos-american-old-west%2F&psig=AOvVaw3n3HnhZ8vK1DkrDia4Zj9i&ust=1530059772435404) [https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwinpvaSi\_DbAhVRNH0KHWCSATEQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Flongstreet.typepad.com%2Fthesciencebookstore%2F2012%2F01%2Fon-the-history-of-the-word-cowboy.html&psig=AOvVaw3n3HnhZ8vK1DkrDia4Zj9i&ust=1530059772435404](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwinpvaSi_DbAhVRNH0KHWCSATEQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Flongstreet.typepad.com%2Fthesciencebookstore%2F2012%2F01%2Fon-the-history-of-the-word-cowboy.html&psig=AOvVaw3n3HnhZ8vK1DkrDia4Zj9i&ust=1530059772435404) [https://www.google.com/url](https://www.google.com/url)? sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiYkbqci\_DbAhXlHjQIHV7sAwAQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%[2Fwww.cascity.com](http://2Fwww.cascity.com)%2Fforumhall%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Dprintpage%3Btopic%3D20372.0&psig=AOvVaw3n3HnhZ8vK1DkrDia4Zj9i&ust=1530059772435404 [https://www.google.com/search?q=cowboy+photographs&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CVt-fXb868dlIjhdKXkwOwKh2furYJZcTgRZuG3\_10cH\_1i8xlTPl6WCV7rpGOofCP0z-UzmEkUJ3VvYpqK3PRKRVArCoSCV0peTA7AqHZEa8I0YcN6bZjKhIJ-6tgllxOBFkRx2q6\_1LrjMaEqEgm4bf\_1Rwf-LzBGg6-srhb8wJioSCWVM-XpYJXuuEfnkXherj4jHKhIJkY6h8I\_1TP5QRRMzElJIoJf0qEgnOYSRQndW9ihGq-5wMUKPNvCoSCWorc9EpFUCsEYW7Xlk02akp&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinpvaSi\_DbAhVRNH0KHWCSATEQ9C96BAgBEBs&biw=1617&bih=877&dpr=1](https://www.google.com/search?q=cowboy+photographs&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CVt-fXb868dlIjhdKXkwOwKh2furYJZcTgRZuG3_10cH_1i8xlTPl6WCV7rpGOofCP0z-UzmEkUJ3VvYpqK3PRKRVArCoSCV0peTA7AqHZEa8I0YcN6bZjKhIJ-6tgllxOBFkRx2q6_1LrjMaEqEgm4bf_1Rwf-LzBGg6-srhb8wJioSCWVM-XpYJXuuEfnkXherj4jHKhIJkY6h8I_1TP5QRRMzElJIoJf0qEgnOYSRQndW9ihGq-5wMUKPNvCoSCWorc9EpFUCsEYW7Xlk02akp&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinpvaSi_DbAhVRNH0KHWCSATEQ9C96BAgBEBs&biw=1617&bih=877&dpr=1) [https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjXx9G4i\_DbAhXQFjQIHW1xCQAQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpetticoatsandpistols.com%2F2011%2F10%2F28%2Fstrap-em-on-cowboy%2F&psig=AOvVaw3U5br4dU7CY-fANJ4MD9Hc&ust=1530059874725085](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjXx9G4i_DbAhXQFjQIHW1xCQAQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpetticoatsandpistols.com%2F2011%2F10%2F28%2Fstrap-em-on-cowboy%2F&psig=AOvVaw3U5br4dU7CY-fANJ4MD9Hc&ust=1530059874725085) and you wont see cowboys wearing bowlers, except when posing for pictures in their Sunday suits. Some guy started the "cowboys wore bowlers’ and the “Bowler was the hat that won the west” meme a little while ago, without any documentation at all. He used Billy the Kid as a example- but Billy is wearing a slouch. And Butch Cassidy- but that photo is indeed a posed photo in a studio, with the men wearing suits, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/89 "2018-06-26T00:57:04Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Which jammed or misfired more? I thought smaller guns jammed a lot more often back then than rifles. Once we reached the era of centerfire cartridges, misfires became much less common than in the muzzle loading days. Jams, depending on what you mean by the term, varied by make and model and ammunition manufacturing techniques. Also keep in mind that large numbers of muzzle loading guns remained in use or underwent period conversion to use cartridges. The cartridge conversions are interesting mechanically, but they are all basically kludges. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/90 "2018-06-26T01:21:09Z")
> [@vperry1](#): > > Movies usuall portray a twenty minute gunfight in a wide open lot. I’m not suggesting movies get it right but as a fan of westerns I’ve never seen it portrayed as a 20 minute fight. John Ford? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/91 "2018-06-26T01:22:11Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > A couple that bug me: > > 1. White cowboys, and only white cowboys. Do a little research and you’ll find that huge numbers of cowboys were either Mexican or black. To fix a helpful image, _National Geographic_ once published a beautiful photograph of an Hispano or Latino vaquero in New Mexico. Google hasn’t found me the picture yet, but he was shown relaxing with a drink and wearing silver conchas. The article may have been “New Mexico: Between Frontier and Future” in the November 1987 issue. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/92 "2018-06-26T01:45:20Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > To fix a helpful image, _National Geographic_ once published a beautiful photograph of an Hispano or Latino vaquero in New Mexico. Fun fact: the word ‘buckaroo’ is a corruption of vaquero. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/93 "2018-06-26T02:37:54Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > One of the amusing things about Western movies, is that with rare exception, you can always tell who is going to lose the gunfight; It’s the one that draws first. Or the one brought a knife. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/94 "2018-06-26T03:35:09Z")
In _Supernatural_ episode 6.18 “[Frontierland](http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/6.18_Frontierland),” Sam & Dean time-travel to the Old West, go into a saloon, and are dismayed to find the whiskey is horrible and the friendly prostitutes have big obvious chancres on their mouths. Dean’s Old West illusions are cruelly dashed. In a similar vein, I thought _Unforgiven_ did the all-time best job of deconstructing Western tropes. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/95 "2018-06-26T04:39:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Whether you want to trust Wikipedia is up to you, but [what they say here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowler_hat#Outside_the_British_Isles) is the same as what many articles say. I’ve not seen many authentic photos of working cowboys, I don’t know if many exist, but it doesn’t seem to be controversial that bowlers were common, and that Stetsons were rare or non-existant until after the frontier period. Googling “historic cowboy photos” almost entirely shows them wearing wide-brimmed hats (not necessarily Stetsons), not bowlers. People appear wearing bowlers in town, or in formal portraits. Now perhaps people are less likely to label photos of guys wearing derbies as cowboys, but I’d be interested in seeing photos of working cowboys wearing derbies. So far googling hasn’t revealed any. You would think if it were common there would be some. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/96 "2018-06-26T05:35:43Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Whether you want to trust Wikipedia is up to you, but [what they say here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowler_hat#Outside_the_British_Isles) is the same as what many articles say. Actually, if you read the actual [article by Lucius Beebe](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19571026&id=xQQpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PkgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7036,5636283) cited in Wiki, not one of the examples he gives of someone wearing a derby is of a cowboy. They are miners, engineers, law officers, and holdup men, but not cowboys. A quote from the article (bolding mine): > [@Lucius Beebe](#): > > **Kansas peace officers, Texas trail herders, and cow pokes in Wyoming and Arizona did in fact run to Stetsons and other sombreros** , but the notion that these were universal and the regional hat of the entire Western continent is a canard dating from the first paintings by Remington. So the article cited by Wiki itself confirms that cowboys in various areas did wear Stetsons and other wide-brimmed hats rather than derbies. Wiki says they were favored “by cowboys and railroad workers,” but provides no citation for that statement. Certainly other types of hats than the Stetson were worn in the Western US in the nineteenth century. However, it seems both from Beebe’s statement and photos that wide-brimmed hats were popular among cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/97 "2018-06-26T06:06:44Z")
I’m going to take a stab in the dark and say there probably weren’t a whole lot of Old West Native Americans of [Italian descent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody). And I’m a little dubious of Native Americans hop-skipping around a bonfire, clapping hand-to-mouth, chanting, _Woo woo woo woo, Woo woo woo woo, Woo woo woo woo._ And, I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess most Wild West shootouts were not noble face-to-face type duels at noon on main-street, but rather one shit-faced cowboy shooting another shit-faced cowboy in the ass because he made fun of him riding a donkey, or a mule, or a camel, or an ostrich, instead of a manly horse … as he attempted to flee out the swinging doors of the saloon, screaming all the way. Want to see an accurate portrayal of a Native American on TV? Look no further than Philadelphia’s [Chief HalfTown](http://www.broadcastpioneers.com/chief.html). 100% Seneca Indian. Hosted the longest running children’s TV show in the history of the world. And he was a damned fine bowler! ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/98 "2018-06-26T08:25:48Z")
On prices. I’m not sure where to find it anymore but there used to be digital copies of old Sears and Montgomery Wards catalogs from around 1900. Catalogs made things much cheaper than buying from local merchants. Interestingly I found saddles were always expensive. So like $50 dollars for a wagon but $100 for a saddle. ---
**Author:** ![vperry1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee7513/32.png) [@vperry1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vperry1)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/99 "2018-06-26T11:41:11Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Which jammed or misfired more? I thought smaller guns jammed a lot more often back then than rifles. I would guess that pistols misfired more than rifles. Misfired as opposed to jammed. Earlier pistols didn’t have bullets, but cap and ball or ball and powder. If the ball wasn’t packed tight enough, or the powder got wet, good like in a shootout. That is why Wild Bill Hickok was so deadly a shot. It took forever to load an old navy colt reolver, so when someone drew on him quick, Bill would take his time and actually aim, not to waste ammo or miss. ---
**Author:** ![vperry1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee7513/32.png) [@vperry1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vperry1)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/100 "2018-06-26T11:45:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > I’m not suggesting movies get it right but as a fan of westerns I’ve never seen it portrayed as a 20 minute fight. John Ford? “Gunfight at the O.K. Corral” had a long shoot out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612.md?page=6)