# Old West bullshit facts. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612 "2018-06-23T09:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/101 "2018-06-26T13:46:38Z")
> [@vperry1](#): > > I would guess that pistols misfired more than rifles. Misfired as opposed to jammed. Earlier pistols didn’t have bullets, but cap and ball or ball and powder. If the ball wasn’t packed tight enough, or the powder got wet, good like in a shootout. > > That is why Wild Bill Hickok was so deadly a shot. It took forever to load an old navy colt reolver, so when someone drew on him quick, Bill would take his time and actually aim, not to waste ammo or miss. “Bullets” are projectiles i.e. the bit that flies out of the gun and hits the target. So, yes, earlier pistols did have them. Though muzzle loading weapons could be, and were, loaded with loose powder and ball, [paper cartridges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_cartridge) were in use almost from the invention of guns themselves. In the time period we are discussing, muzzle loaders using percussion caps, paper cartridge breech loaders, rimfire cartridge breechloaders, and centerfire cartridge breechloaders were all in use. Also a smattering of things like pin-fire breechloaders. Making a blanket statement about pistols misfiring more often than long guns is nonsensical. There were many ignition systems and many different designs for the weapons themselves. Hickock carried two revolvers, as with weapons of that type a second revolver was the “quick reload” of the day. I guess taking his time and aiming didn’t include actually identifying his target, at least on the day he killed Deputy Williams. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/102 "2018-06-26T15:33:16Z")
I was just researching Pawnee Bill (Gordon W. Lillie) for a book, which lead me to Buffalo Bill, who hired him\*. The only reason Buffalo Bill got famous in the first place was because writer Ned Buntline (really Edward Zane Carroll Judson), along on the cattle drive, needed to interview someone, and they sent him to Cody because everyone else was too busy. Buntline published his (largely invented) story in the New York Weekly, then more stuff in the Chicago Tribune. Once he got the publicity I the two big cities, he was a celebrity. - (he eventually returned the favor, buying up Buffalo Bill’s show and saving him from bankruptcy, but only after much Bad Blood between them.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/103 "2018-06-26T16:23:01Z")
You might enjoy Hampton Sides’ _Blood and Thunder_, nominally a biography of Kit Carson but really about the entire period and region. He tells of his failure to rescue Ann White and her baby, who had been taken prisoner and abused by a band of Utes and Jicarilla Apaches, near his home in Taos. Although the Indians killed her when Carson and his posse approached, they found a book in her possessions - a tome titled _called Kit Carson, the Nestor of the Mountains, from Facts Narrated by Himself_, by DeWitt C. Peters, the first of many such exploitations of his name. Carson was astounded at the invented bullshit that had been made up about him, inspired by John C. Fremont’s praise, bullshit that only grew over time. At a later incident, Carson was approached by a man who said he was looking for Kit Carson. The short, stocky, quiet, unprepossessing Carson, looking not at all like the dime novel action hero, said he had found him, but the man looked him up and down and said “You ain’t the kind of Kit Carson I’m looking for”. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/104 "2018-06-26T16:58:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You might enjoy Hampton Sides’ _Blood and Thunder_, nominally a biography of Kit Carson but really about the entire period and region. He tells of his failure to rescue Ann White and her baby, who had been taken prisoner and abused by a band of Utes and Jicarilla Apaches, near his home in Taos. Although the Indians killed her when Carson and his posse approached, they found a book in her possessions - a tome titled _called Kit Carson, the Nestor of the Mountains, from Facts Narrated by Himself_, by DeWitt C. Peters, the first of many such exploitations of his name. Carson was astounded at the invented bullshit that had been made up about him, inspired by John C. Fremont’s praise, bullshit that only grew over time. > > At a later incident, Carson was approached by a man who said he was looking for Kit Carson. The short, stocky, quiet, unprepossessing Carson, looking not at all like the dime novel action hero, said he had found him, but the man looked him up and down and said “You ain’t the kind of Kit Carson I’m looking for”. +1 ---
**Author:** ![vperry1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee7513/32.png) [@vperry1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vperry1)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/105 "2018-06-26T17:58:44Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > “Bullets” are projectiles i.e. the bit that flies out of the gun and hits the target. So, yes, earlier pistols did have them. Though muzzle loading weapons could be, and were, loaded with loose powder and ball, [paper cartridges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_cartridge) were in use almost from the invention of guns themselves. In the time period we are discussing, muzzle loaders using percussion caps, paper cartridge breech loaders, rimfire cartridge breechloaders, and centerfire cartridge breechloaders were all in use. Also a smattering of things like pin-fire breechloaders. Making a blanket statement about pistols misfiring more often than long guns is nonsensical. There were many ignition systems and many different designs for the weapons themselves. > Hickock carried two revolvers, as with weapons of that type a second revolver was the “quick reload” of the day. I guess taking his time and aiming didn’t include actually identifying his target, at least on the day he killed Deputy Williams. I stand corrected. You sure know your stuff. Very impressive, indeed, sir. And yes, you are also right about Mike Williams. Wild Bill never worked as a lawman after that ordeal. It shook him to the bone. ---
**Author:** ![vperry1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee7513/32.png) [@vperry1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vperry1)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/106 "2018-06-26T18:12:19Z")
[QUOTE=The only reason Buffalo Bill got famous in the first place was because writer Ned Buntline.[/QUOTE] Speaking which, there is still no proof that Wyatt Earp ever owned a Buntline special. He wasn’t carrying one at the famous gunfight. Ned Buntline basically made up that story to get attention or perhaps sell more books. As far as historians are concerned, until they can find hard evidence that Ned Buntline handed out those guns to the folks he claimed to have, the verdict’s still out. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/107 "2018-06-26T19:56:43Z")
> [@vperry1](#): > > Speaking which, there is still no proof that Wyatt Earp ever owned a Buntline special. He wasn’t carrying one at the famous gunfight. Ned Buntline basically made up that story to get attention or perhaps sell more books. As far as historians are concerned, until they can find hard evidence that Ned Buntline handed out those guns to the folks he claimed to have, the verdict’s still out. OH come on, Wyatt said as much. Earp lived for a long time , 1929, and he even helped write a book about himself. _Wyatt Earp: Frontier Marshal_: "‘There was a lot of talk in Dodge about the specials slowing us on the draw,’ Wyatt recalled. 'Bat and Bill Tilghman cut off the barrels to make them standard length, but Bassett, Brown, and I kept ours as they came. Mine was my favorite over any other gun. I could jerk it as fast as I could my old one and I carried it at my right hip throughout my career as marshal. With it I did most of the six-gun work I had to do. My second gun, which I carried at my left hip, was the standard Colt’s frontier model forty-five caliber, single-action six-shooter with the seven-and-one-half-inch barrel, the gun we called “the Peacemaker.” [http://home.earthlink.net/~knuthco1/Itemsofinterest3/Buntlinesource.htm](http://home.earthlink.net/~knuthco1/Itemsofinterest3/Buntlinesource.htm) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/108 "2018-06-26T21:10:02Z")
Once any sort of town started up, women showed up. Working women. In censuses of the era you can find large number of women living in the same building. Occupation: seamstress. Far too many seamstresses for a town that size. The idea of there being a town with one or two prositutes for a couple hundred men is ridiculous. Especially after the Civil War. If there seemed to be available men somewhere, a _lot_ of women would descend there. And the ways they could legitimately earn enough to feed themselves was small. Furthermore, the towns didn’t think much about shutting these businesses down. Many continued operating openly well into the 20th century. E.g., Pendleton Oregon had [Stella Darby](https://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/44804) who operated a brothel there until 1967. They erected a statue to her! Of course these women just didn’t evaporate. They partnered up with a guy (usually a client), moved to somewhere where she wasn’t known, settled down, had kids, etc. So a lot of people today had a great-something grandma “in the business” and don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![Majestic\_Lee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Majestic\_Lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Majestic_Lee)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/109 "2018-06-26T22:12:59Z")
I’ve always worked on the basis that “Blazing Saddles” was a true depiction of the old West. Especially that beans consuming episode… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/110 "2018-06-26T23:25:26Z")
And the authentic frontier gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/111 "2018-06-26T23:54:02Z")
One false impression people get from the TV show _The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp_ was that Earp, as played by Hugh O’Brien, was clean-shaven. Nope. He usually sported a bushy mustache. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/112 "2018-07-02T02:22:09Z")
> [@Majestic\_Lee](#): > > I’ve always worked on the basis that “Blazing Saddles” was a true depiction of the old West. Especially that beans consuming episode… > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And the authentic frontier gibberish. And the brawl that broke through a wall and onto the set where they were filming the musical number known as “The French Mistake.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/113 "2018-07-02T12:16:43Z")
All that said, it’s worth considering how much the \*fictional \*Wild West invented by dime novelists, Frederic Remington, and Hollywood is responsible for creating the \*real \*gun culture in America today. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612/114 "2018-07-02T18:27:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > All that said, it’s worth considering how much the \*fictional \*Wild West invented by dime novelists, Frederic Remington, and Hollywood is responsible for creating the \*real \*gun culture in America today. America _always_ had a gun culture, it was just so unremarkable that no one thought of it as such until the latter 20th century. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-bullshit-facts/816612.md?page=5)