# Old World Countries where the biggest city isn't the capital **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 9, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161 "2012-10-09T01:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/1 "2012-10-09T01:53:09Z")
Are there many? I live in Canada. One of the curiosities of Canada and the USA is that their national capitals aren’t their greatest cities; Ottawa is not Canada’s largest city or even close to it, and Washington, D.C. isn’t nearly as big or as important as places like New York, and never was. Both capitals were, basically, compromise solutions. Some other large New World countries have tried similar things; Canberra, Australia and Brasilia, Brazil pale in comparison to their bigger cousins like Sydney or (any one of a dozen cities in Brazil.) Conversely, most European countries seem to have a city that is both the capital and greatest city; London is the biggest city in the UK by a mile. Paris is much bigger than any other city in France. Berlin is Germany’s largest city, Warsaw is the biggest city in Poland, and so on. What are some interesting exceptions to the rule in the Old World, if there are any? And why did it end up that way? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/2 "2012-10-09T01:59:08Z")
Ankara, Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/3 "2012-10-09T02:24:33Z")
Mumbai/Bombay is more populous than New Delhi. Karachi is more populous than Islamabad. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/4 "2012-10-09T02:26:11Z")
Beijing is only China’s 3rd largest city. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/5 "2012-10-09T02:28:41Z")
This wiki has a map with all the countries where that’s the case. There are quite a few. [List of countries whose capital is not their largest city - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_whose_capital_is_not_their_largest_city) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/6 "2012-10-09T02:29:30Z")
There are some anomalies, such as the Netherlands, where the largest city (Amsterdam) is the official capital, but all the organs of government are in the Hague. The capital of Burma was in Yangon until the military junta moved it to a purpose-build capital called Naypyidaw somewhere in a field. India’s capital, New Delhi, is part of the conurbation of Delhi, and even that conurbation is second to Mumbai as the largest city in the country. Shanghai is larger than Beijing; the municipality of Chongqing is larger still, but apparently it includes a large area outside the Chongqing metropolitan area. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/7 "2012-10-09T02:52:36Z")
Bern, Switzerland has about 70,000 fewer inhabitants than Geneva and a lot less than Zurich. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/8 "2012-10-09T03:38:24Z")
Milan is bigger than Rome I think. Tel Aviv maybe bigger than Jerusalum. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/9 "2012-10-09T03:58:33Z")
Ho Chi Minh City is bigger than Hanoi. Of course, HCM City was _a_ national capital at one point. Shanghai is bigger than Beijing. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/10 "2012-10-09T04:09:51Z")
What’s the story behind the Ottawa compromise? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/11 "2012-10-09T04:25:32Z")
Johannesburg is larger than any of South Africa’s three capitals – Pretoria (the executive capital), Bloemfontein (judicial) and Cape Town (legislative). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/12 "2012-10-09T04:32:11Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Bern, Switzerland has about 70,000 fewer inhabitants than Geneva and a lot less than Zurich. It’s also smaller than Basel. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/13 "2012-10-09T07:15:50Z")
Biggest and greatest aren’t quite the same thing. Spain’s biggest city is currently our capital, Madrid, but for many centuries other cities were bigger (well, when it was declared the capital it was barely a village): it became the biggest during the 19th century by swallowing many of the neighboring towns. The same process took place in many other locations (Barcelona, Valencia, Bilbao…) but Madrid was the one who stopped later and bigger; there have been periods in the intervening hundred-or-so years when one of the other large metro areas was more populous than Madrid’s. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/14 "2012-10-09T07:41:37Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Milan is bigger than Rome I think. Pretty sure not… Rome is actually a good example of typical “Old World” setting the hub as the Capital. > [@](#): > > Tel Aviv maybe bigger than Jerusalum. True for most metrics (except Municipal Population, which in J’lem’s case is inflated by drawing the municipal borders probably bigger than the metropolitan area,) but it’s an “upstart” city – Jerusalem was the Capital of Israel and then of Judea millennia before T-A existed (and it was much larger and more important than Jaffa, too, ya nitpickers!) So I think this counts as yet another “Keep the capital in the ancient Hub” Old World case. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/15 "2012-10-09T08:01:23Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > What’s the story behind the Ottawa compromise? The two most populous provinces were English-speaking Ontario and French-speaking Quebec. Ottawa was chosen because it’s on the border of these two provinces. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/16 "2012-10-09T08:39:02Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Tel Aviv maybe bigger than Jerusalum. And not all countries recognise Jerusalem as the capital. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/17 "2012-10-09T10:03:53Z")
Lots of countries also don’t recognize Israel. We tend to ignore what these countries think. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/18 "2012-10-09T10:14:18Z")
Wikipedia has a [map for that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_whose_capital_is_not_their_largest_city). One that surprised me was Malta. I’d never heard of [Birkirkara](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkirkara), but apparently it has three and a half times the population of Valletta. Some African countries moved the capitals away from long-established locations, either in colonial times (eg Rabat, Morocco), or after independence (Dodoma, Tanzania; Abuja, Nigeria) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/19 "2012-10-09T11:23:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Milan is bigger than Rome I think. It depends on your definition of “city” and/or “metropolitan area”. Milan was generally considered bigger from about 1955 to 1985, but Rome has generally been considered bigger since then. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161/20 "2012-10-09T11:25:05Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > Pretty sure not… Rome is actually a good example of typical “Old World” setting the hub as the Capital. City proper has [Rome being larger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome). However, [the urban area is](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Milan)the largest in Italy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-world-countries-where-the-biggest-city-isnt-the-capital/637161.md?page=2)