# Older dopers, your reaction to participation in the Vietnam War **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 21, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695 "2021-11-21T00:42:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ASGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@ASGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/1 "2021-11-21T00:42:19Z")
I’ve been participating in the MPSIMS “polls, no discussion” thread. I came up with this one but decided it warranted discussion. Here it is. This poll is for dopers age 68 and older. I’m 67, so I don’t qualify. I’ll ask younger dopers not to vote. My best friend and I turned 18 in 1972. By then the Vietnam War was basically over. My friend joined the Marine Corps right out of high school. He asked for Vietnam duty but was told no Marines were going over. For you qualified (over 68) dopers, when you were drafted or enlisted, what was your philosophy about serving? _Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/1))_ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/2 "2021-11-21T02:30:50Z")
The poll says "Results will be shown on **vote**. That means for those of us who don’t qualify for that poll won’t know what the results of the poll are. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/3 "2021-11-21T03:02:48Z")
Graduated HS in 1970. Went straight to college that fall, to be sure to have a student deferment. Not like a “gap year” was really a thing in those days, but it really wasn’t even an option. When the lottery came around, I got a high number, so I could stop worrying about it. Of various friends/relatives/acquaintances, I know one who fled to Canada, one who did a year in federal prison as a draft dodger, and several who volunteered for services where you’re less likely to be shot at, before they got drafted. (Air Force, coast guard). The only ones I know who went to ‘Nam are several years older. They went before it was well known what a clusterfuck the whole thing was. I’m not really sure what I would have done if I had been likely to get drafted. Most likely would have tried for the safer service route. I was too much of a chicken to either take a stand or go into hiding. I’d like to think I’d have gone in, sung a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walked out. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/4 "2021-11-21T03:16:49Z")
I turned 18 in 1972, but they weren’t drafting anyone under the age of 19. At age 18, I was classified 1H, a holding group. On my 19th birthday, I was classified 1A. My lottery number was 59. The following day, the draft law expired, and the draft was over. I was eligible for one day. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/5 "2021-11-21T04:23:19Z")
I don’t really qualify for this because I was medically ineligible for the draft (asthma). I graduated high school in 1967 and I think pretty soon after that they implemented the draft lottery and I had a low number. My attitude was that I was opposed to the war, and before being drafted I would have enlisted in a service that had a smaller chance of being sent to Vietnam or, being there, a smaller chance of getting killed. I have a friend who did that, Air Force, and had the luck to spend the next four years near London, England. I probably wouldn’t have been that lucky, but fortunately that question was moot. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/6 "2021-11-21T05:39:17Z")
Women Dopers were left out of the question the way it was posed. I was 18 in 1968 and was heavily impacted by the war, even though I couldn’t have been drafted. No poll choice fit unless you consider ‘something else’ or ‘other’. Ends up being dismissive of many Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/7 "2021-11-21T06:49:47Z")
I was due to be in the next ballot when conscription was ended in Australia. I had been involved in protests against the war in general for several years prior and, even though Australian troops had been withdrawn from Vietnam by then, I was determined not to go into the military regardless. If you couldn’t convince a court that you were morally opposed to the war, jail was your other choice if you hadn’t got out of the country. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/8 "2021-11-21T13:43:19Z")
I suppose I need to wait till January when I turn 68. But I’ll toss my 2¢ anyway. I knew there was a war in Vietnam and lots of people were being killed. I knew there were protests. I was not interested in politics or even in the news back then, and I was still naïve enough to trust the government. So I thought the protesters were troublemakers and deserving of prison. And I enlisted in the Navy in 1973, so technically, I’m a Vietnam era veteran. And over the years, I came to realize that maybe the government and the President don’t always know or do what is right. Yeah, late bloomer here. And I look at all the wars since. It’s a no-win business, except for manufacturers of tanks and planes and guns and ships… And for what? Really, for what? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/9 "2021-11-21T13:47:33Z")
I was opposed to the war and very opposed to the draft, and participated in quite a few anti-war protests. After revealing (and convincing them) that I was gay, I was classified as 1Y. If I had been drafted, I would have gone to Canada. I had a close female friend who assisted guys in moving to Canada, and she still lives there. ---
**Author:** ![JoePockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8dc957/32.png) [@JoePockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoePockets)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/10 "2021-11-21T14:19:17Z")
Same with me S1 deferment and Hit the lottery…And never won a dime playing state lottery since…And that’s ok because he one I hit may have saved my life at 19 behaving 16 and 135lbs…God bless those who served. If only we never got involved! ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/11 "2021-11-21T14:24:13Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Women Dopers were left out of the question the way it was posed. This. I voted “something else” so I could see the results; and I see that’s currently the majority vote, though I don’t know whether it’s mostly women who have caused that result. I had friends starving themselves rather than be drafted; one of them pulled it off – it wasn’t easy. I was opposed to the war; went to a couple of demonstrations. I don’t know what I would have been done if I’d been draftable and been drafted. ---
**Author:** ![ASGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@ASGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/12 "2021-11-21T15:53:35Z")
I’ll accept my poor wording and failure to set the voting requirement. My apologies. I closed the voting. If someone else thinks this should be tried again with improvements be my guest. – ASGuy ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/13 "2021-11-21T16:19:02Z")
I was deferred first for being a student and then a job deferral before I was 26 (which was the practical, although not legal limit). But as a professor I could not face the fact that students who failed calculus from me might get drafted thereby and moved to Canada. So I chose that, although not strictly applicable. Hijack: I knew two people who got medical deferments by showing up for their physicals not wearing underpants. One did it carelessly; the other on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/14 "2021-11-22T22:38:13Z")
I turned 20 in 1968. I wasn’t very politically aware and I didn’t get involved in demonstrations or anything. I didn’t really understand much about what was going on. The country was not inundated with news and punditry 24/7 the way we are now. That really started with CNN during the first Gulf War around 1990. Not that one couldn’t be well-informed, but one had to make a point of it. I didn’t. The boys I knew who were eligible for the draft were scrambling like heck to avoid it-- a lot of them entered the seminary. Only one that I know of actually became a priest. I had friends who were active protesters. I knew a woman who had gone to Canada to help draft avoiders. My father was career military and thought draft “dodgers” were criminals. He thought the Kent State killings were justified. Obviously the country became polarized over this-- it led to Lyndon Johnson’s resignation from a job he had wanted all his life. My late husband was nine years older than I, so he was still part of the generation that felt it was honorable to serve in the military. He was in ROTC and then went to Vietnam as an officer and a Medivac helicopter pilot ("Dustoff’) in 1966-67. Back then, they just served one tour. While there he was exposed to Agent Orange and developed type 1 diabetes, which eventually led to a kidney transplant and a host of other things that eventually killed him 30 years later. And yeah, when he came back he was indeed called a “baby killer,” even though he was never a combatant, and in fact, performed over 1,000 rescues of soldiers, Americans, and Vietnamese (even the enemy if injured). Trying to avoid the draft legitimately was **not** condemned by most people. Clinton’s Rhodes Scholar venture and G.W. Bush’s National Guard service would have been seen as definitely okay and not as something shameful. It was only after the country shifted back to valuing military service in the early 1990s that in retrospect, avoiding the draft was seen as cowardly and shirking duty. It wasn’t in the 1960s and 70s. You can argue with me if you want to, but I was there, and this is what it looked like from my corner of the world. It was in the early 1990s that the Vietnam vets started crawling out from the shadows and accepting the thanks and recognition that had been denied them for 30+ years. It was only then that my husband started talking about some of his experiences. FTR, I do not feel slighted because the original poll did not make a point of including women. The draftees were men. We girls (and I WAS a girl then) did not have to sweat bullets, as it were, over our draft numbers like our boyfriends did. \<_ThelmaLou hands out chill pills._\> I’m feeling quite emotional as I write this post, and may not be expressing myself well. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/15 "2021-11-22T22:51:05Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It was only after the country shifted back to valuing military service in the early 1990s that in retrospect, avoiding the draft was seen as cowardly and shirking duty. It wasn’t in the 1960s and 70s. You can argue with me if you want to, but I was there. I was there too. It depended a whole lot on who you were talking to. My friends saw draft avoidance as entirely moral, but my parents and a whole lot of other people (of all ages) saw it both as cowardly and as immoral in the 60’s and 70’s. Some families were torn apart over this. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/16 "2021-11-23T00:29:48Z")
The famous draft-dodger episode from All in the Family (sorry I can’t find a decent clip of it) ran at Christmas in 1976. Allowing for creative license, I remember watching this when it first came out, and I’m pretty sure it was still a potential family-splitting issue then, perhaps a little less so than it had been 10 years earlier. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/17 "2021-11-23T00:46:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > it led to Lyndon Johnson’s resignation from a job he had wanted all his life. Nitpick: LBJ didn’t resign from the presidency, he failed to get his party’s nomination for reelection and Nixon ultimately won over Humphrey. Nixon resigned. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/18 "2021-11-23T00:49:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Apologies. Accepted. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/19 "2021-11-23T01:35:08Z")
I did say I might not be expressing myself clearly. What I meant was he chose not to run for another term-- tantamount to resigning. He in effect walked away from the job he had worked toward his whole life. In his TV speech he said, “I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your president.” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695/20 "2021-11-23T01:50:43Z")
I’m younger than 68, and I was in imminent danger of being drafted. I told my dad I might look into Contentious Objector status. He said “Well, then I’d disown you.” and left the room. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/older-dopers-your-reaction-to-participation-in-the-vietnam-war/954695.md?page=2)