# Oldest Koran found in Birmingham, UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871 "2015-07-22T12:34:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/61 "2015-07-30T08:08:31Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Care to post some of the data that you are using? You’ve been notably light on posting any sources. Posts #59 & 60 can be taken as a negative answer to your query. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/62 "2015-07-30T08:37:40Z")
Sometimes I get responses from people that direct me to info relating to the posts I make on forums. I gratefully follow them up. Wanna help me out? I’m eager to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/63 "2015-07-30T09:11:41Z")
SeniorCitizen007: Assertions of fact are not a guessing game. You assert something as a fact, you post the evidence for said assertion being fact. That’s been quite a long-standing practice on this board. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/64 "2015-07-30T10:55:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > SeniorCitizen007: Assertions of fact are not a guessing game. You assert something as a fact, you post the evidence for said assertion being fact. That’s been quite a long-standing practice on this board. ‘The Bible is riddled with interpolations. The Koran much less so. Those who had a hand in the subtle changes in the Koran’s text went about it a much more subtle way. There are also indications that in some cases interpolations were made by a person who didn’t fully grasp the meaning of what he was tampering with’. Islamophobia? … or do I know something? I understand if its not appropriate for me to use your board as a vehicle for my views and perceptions about Islam (and religions in general). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/65 "2015-07-30T11:21:08Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Islamophobia? > > … or do I know something? There’s really no way to tell until you post your sources. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/66 "2015-07-30T11:31:07Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Back in the 60s and 70s educated young Muslims were often openly irreligious. Mini skirts were popular in Cairo & Kabul, sort of thing. You spent a lot of time in 1960’s Kabul I take it? (Hint, my mother did, and she does not remember many miniskirts, or she has failed to mention them). As it is, why the fuck are miniskirts the epitime of liberlaism and modernity. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/67 "2015-07-30T12:51:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You spent a lot of time in 1960’s Kabul I take it? > (Hint, my mother did, and she does not remember many miniskirts, or she has failed to mention them). > > As it is, why the fuck are miniskirts the epitime of liberlaism and modernity. And what do miniskirts have to do with the archaeological question at hand? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/68 "2015-07-30T13:04:08Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Islamophobia? > > … or do I know something? As an arabophone it is quite clear to me you know nothing about what you are posting. > [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Wanna help me out? I’m eager to learn. this is doubtful > [@Telemark](#): > > There’s really no way to tell until you post your sources. oh it is quite clear if you know the quran and the religion he does not know one thing. and where he is getting his informations. > [@AK84](#): > > As it is, why the fuck are miniskirts the epitime of liberlaism and modernity. it is my learning over the many years here that for the fat white euros and ameros, it is the height of the liberation of women that they wear the clothing that allows the fat white ones to ogle the young muslim girls. This shows how much freedom there is. It is an intersting lesson for me in seeing this on this board so many years, apparently we have not focused on the true liberties that fat white men like for the women. > [@Monty](#): > > And what do miniskirts have to do with the archaeological question at hand? It is doubtless the rationalism of the aged brain. and the obsession of the phobic. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/69 "2015-07-30T14:03:21Z")
Is this an English university grudge or a Muslim grudge? Which one refused to get off your lawn . ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/70 "2015-07-30T14:25:13Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > One thing people should know about me is that I’ve been associating with atheist Muslims for over 40 years - people from Egypt, Tunisia, Morroco, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Indonesia, India, Malaysia, etc. Atheist Muslims are often very clear thinkers, especially the women. So what? This is a board dedicated to answering factual questions. If you make a factual assertion, as you have done, and other posters ask you to back up your factual assertions, the onus is on you to provide cites in support. You have not done so. Your personal life history is not a fact, nor does it matter who you hang out with. In my previous post, I’ve summarised five general factual assertions you have made in this thread. You’ve made no attempt to provide cites or references to back them up, other than vague statements of your personal beliefs and opinions. Are we expected to take your comments as true, on faith? Would be somewhat ironic… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/71 "2015-07-30T14:26:21Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Sometimes I get responses from people that direct me to info relating to the posts I make on forums. > > I gratefully follow them up. > > Wanna help me out? I’m eager to learn. It’s not the job of other posters to find cites to back up your factual assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/72 "2015-07-30T19:21:46Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > One thing people should know about me is that I’ve been associating with atheist Muslims for over 40 years - people from Egypt, Tunisia, Morroco, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Indonesia, India, Malaysia, etc. Atheist Muslims are often very clear thinkers, especially the women. It seems to me that you do not actually know the meaning of either the word [atheist](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist) or [Muslim](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muslim). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/73 "2015-07-30T21:47:32Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It seems to me that you do not actually know the meaning of either the word [atheist](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist) or [Muslim](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muslim). I am totally embarrassed to have missed that bit of nonsense-nice catch! ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/74 "2015-07-31T11:01:48Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It seems to me that you do not actually know the meaning of either the word [atheist](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist) or [Muslim](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muslim). I assumed that they meant that they were atheists who didn’t believe in the _Muslim_ god, as opposed to the Christian one 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/75 "2015-07-31T13:22:43Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > it is my learning over the many years here that for the fat white euros and ameros, it is the height of the liberation of women that they wear the clothing that allows the fat white ones to ogle the young muslim girls. > > This shows how much freedom there is. > > It is an intersting lesson for me in seeing this on this board so many years, apparently we have not focused on the true liberties that fat white men like for the women. > > It is doubtless the rationalism of the aged brain. and the obsession of the phobic. _ **SlightHijack** _ **Fat white euros and ameros**!? Apart from you being racist, the point of the ‘miniskirt’ debate has gone over your head, it’s not so much about the apparel, but the ability to wear such clothing over the objections of others, even if it offends them as such, because it’s not a mans body to own, it’s a woman to flaunt (Or not) if she wants to do so. You don’t seem to be able to rationalise the fact that maybe some women want to dress differently, one which opposes your societal norms. Also, hijabis get oogled at anyway, so maybe it’s a Male problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/76 "2015-07-31T13:47:14Z")
[quote=“Ryan\_Liam, post:75, topic:725871”] **Fat white euros and ameros**!? Apart from you being racist,c/quote] Racist? There is nothing racist, I ascribe no view or no inherent quality to all fat white euros and ameros. or white euros and ameros. I do describe that image to the certain kind of prejudiced and ignorant internet commentators who always seem to find that the objectification of the women is dressed up in the fake costume of concern about us and in the only badly hidden lecherous view. The judgement of liberty on idiot superficialities and a certain set of them becomes obvious over the decade. > [@](#): > > the point of the ‘miniskirt’ debate has gone over your head, No, in fact it has not. Not at all. Rather it is that I am actually muslim and actually live in the muslim world and actually with my sisters experience not the ignorant and ill informed stereotypes of the fat white internet commentariat that thinks is the experience, and the constant fact of their excuse making focus. > [@](#): > > it’s not so much about the apparel, but the ability to wear such clothing over the objections of others, No it is about the lecherous view and the ignorance - as here in my city in fact even some of my cousines wear the short skirt. And some have the hidjab. And many are in between. and in fact in our lived real lives, not the stereotypes of the internet commentariat, the wearing of the short skirt or the long skirt does not indicate any great feminist gains, not at all. Not that there is any law or rule forbidding or preveniting, as the great range across families - my family is not at all unusual - shows. The Saudi Arabia is not the muslim world. > [@](#): > > You don’t seem to be able to rationalise the fact that maybe some women want to dress differently, this makes me laugh, of course I said nothing about how any of us dress - but your distorted reading the straw man is set up for making the excuses. I don’t need the basement dwelling commentariat that relies on stereotype and prejudice for their visions of our lives to let me know about the lived life here. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/77 "2015-07-31T14:00:21Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > I don’t need the basement dwelling commentariat that relies on stereotype and prejudice for their visions of our lives to let me know about the lived life here. Just a hint: if you don’t want commentary that relies on stereotypes and prejudice, don’t bring up silly stereotypes and prejudices about people who oppose your view. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/78 "2015-07-31T15:18:21Z")
Enough. Knock it off or take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/79 "2015-07-31T15:39:09Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ramira** > The judgement of liberty on idiot superficialities and a certain set of them becomes obvious over the decade. [A woman invented the miniskirt.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Quant) > [@](#): > > Rather it is that I am actually muslim and actually live in the muslim world and actually with my sisters experience not the ignorant and ill informed stereotypes of the fat **white** internet commentariat that thinks is the experience, and the constant fact of their excuse making focus. Again, what’s me being white got to do with anything? > [@](#): > > and in fact in our lived real lives, not the stereotypes of the internet commentariat, the wearing of the short skirt or the long skirt does not indicate any great feminist gains, not at all. Not that there is any law or rule forbidding or preveniting, as the great range across families - my family is not at all unusual - shows. The Saudi Arabia is not the muslim world. No one said anything about Saudis being the Muslim world. However due to the social conservatism of the Middle East, it’s highly unlikely a woman has the liberty to wear a miniskirt if she so wishes, which is my point of why it is an example of a feminist gain. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871/80 "2015-07-31T15:43:42Z")
Last chance. Anyone else wants to continue the hijack about fat white people, miniskirts or anything else will be getting a warning. I understand that the OP poisoned the well a bit but if you want to Pit him or what you think he is trying to say go ahead. In the Pit. If you want to discuss the news story about the Koran continue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-koran-found-in-birmingham-uk/725871.md?page=5)