# Oldest MAN MADE thing found **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614 "2006-04-14T02:26:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/1 "2006-04-14T02:26:31Z")
What is the single oldest man-made object ever discovered? Ground rules: by man-made I mean an object deliberately manufactured or altered by humans / neandertals/ cro-magnons or whatever. The remnants of an animal bone gnawed by ancient man would not count. An amimal horn that was used as a primitive pick wouldn’t count, but one thathad been deliberately shaped to make a more efficient tool would count. A rock worn down by being used to crack nuts wouldn’t count, but a rock decorated for artistic purposes would count. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/2 "2006-04-14T04:12:48Z")
[2.5 to 2.6 million years old.](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E2D91F3BF930A15752C0A961958260) Stone tools from Gona, Ethopia. Work was published in _Nature_ in 1997. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/3 "2006-04-14T05:12:53Z")
Define “man”. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/4 "2006-04-14T05:49:30Z")
Hrmmph. You read the OP? I think he already defined it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/5 "2006-04-14T05:53:29Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Define “man”. > [@](#): > > [MAN, n.](http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/m.html) > An animal so lost in rapturous contemplation of what he thinks he is as to overlook what he indubitably ought to be. His chief occupation is extermination of other animals and his own species, which, however, multiplies with such insistent rapidity as to infest the whole habitable earth and Canada. … ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/6 "2006-04-14T15:46:24Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Hrmmph. You read the OP? > > I think he already defined it. “Whatever” is hardly a good working definition. Since he includes Neanderthals, which are not in the direct line of descent of modern humans, then there would be no reason not to include every species that ever lived unless he means the oldest thing made by a member of the Genus _Homo_. In that case, we don’t know for sure that the 2.5M year old stone tools were “man made”. They could have been made by _Australopithicines_. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/7 "2006-04-14T18:35:20Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > “Whatever” is hardly a good working definition. \*. I meant it to be as general as possible so it wouldn’t exclude anything. If those tools were made by australopithecines, then I would still consider them to be man-made. How about this for a definition for the purposes of this particular question : Man is any creature capable of deliberately manufacturing or altering tools for a specific purpose. As for the rest of the animal kingdom, if you can show me 5-million year old cow tools I’d be interested in that too. BTW, rather than identify a _class_ of objects, I’m really hoping you can identify a specific object, and say something like “this particular arrowhead is the single oldest artifact ever discovered” Is that possible? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/8 "2006-04-14T18:37:12Z")
Gas station vending machine sandwiches. Probably the cheese ones. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/9 "2006-04-14T18:52:43Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > How about this for a definition for the purposes of this particular question : Man is any creature capable of deliberately manufacturing or altering tools for a specific purpose. So do chimpanzees who break twigs off and strip them of leaves to fashion a device for “fishing” for termites count as “human”? ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/10 "2006-04-14T19:25:55Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > So do chimpanzees who break twigs off and strip them of leaves to fashion a device for “fishing” for termites count as “human”? I knew someone was going to say this (I was thinking of it myself). I imagine the answer would be “yes, now please identify a 3000+ year old twig that can be shown to have been used as a tool by chimps”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/11 "2006-04-14T21:49:15Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > I meant it to be as general as possible so it wouldn’t exclude anything. If those tools were made by australopithecines, then I would still consider them to be man-made. An important point of clarificantion, since not many people who know about this sort of thing would think that Australopithicine = man. > [@](#): > > How about this for a definition for the purposes of this particular question : Man is any creature capable of deliberately manufacturing or altering tools for a specific purpose. [/QUOTE] That’s a terrible definition of “man”, even if it ends up giving you the answer you seem to be looking for. It would only be by luck, or simply not looking that we’ve never found any such objects made by an organism that couldn’t be considered “man” by any stretch of the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/12 "2006-04-14T22:06:24Z")
:rolleyes: I think you know exactly what I mean, even though I lack the detailed knowledge of human evolution to use the correct technical terms. Actually, I suspect you don’t either, given that the dictionary disagrees with your spelling of australopithecines. Perhaps the question should be “what is the oldest artifact made by an intelligent ape-descended life form” Happy? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/13 "2006-04-14T22:18:32Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > Perhaps the question should be “what is the oldest artifact made by an intelligent ape-descended life form” Happy? Actually, that’s not bad! ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/14 "2006-04-14T22:47:17Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > I knew someone was going to say this (I was thinking of it myself). I imagine the answer would be “yes, now please identify a 3000+ year old twig that can be shown to have been used as a tool by chimps”. I’m sure I couldn’t identify one if I fell over it - I was just wondering about the constraints. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/15 "2006-04-14T23:42:44Z")
I didn’t notice this before: > [@Peter Morris](#): > > BTW, rather than identify a _class_ of objects, I’m really hoping you can identify a specific object, and say something like “this particular arrowhead is the single oldest artifact ever discovered” Is that possible? No, I don’t think we can. The Olduvai stone tools referenced in post #2 are the oldest hominid-made tools, but I can’t believe anyone would point to just one of them and say: _This particular one is the oldest._ Our dating methodolgy doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/16 "2006-04-15T05:00:26Z")
The server at the Straight Dope Message Board. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/17 "2006-04-15T05:41:14Z")
I would wonder if the evolution of tools from haphazard flint chips (or the like) into something more utilitarian and, therefore, recognizable can fit your question. I mean I completely understand the spirit from which you’re asking, but I’m not sure a delineation exists with which to provide an answer. Maybe the one thing I could argue is that a tool existed before an object de art but at what point did a knapped remnant qualify as a tool? I can see the answer to your question being approached and claimed by seperate archaeologists, each based on their potentially personal (and selfish) definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/18 "2006-04-15T09:57:00Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > The server at the Straight Dope Message Board. 😃 Hehe. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/19 "2006-04-15T11:31:22Z")
Why discriminate against all the other animals, or other kingdoms for that matter, what if a dolphin made a fishing net way back then? Or a Martian made a transwarp drive? How about the oldest manufactured artifact? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614/20 "2006-04-15T21:31:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The server at the Straight Dope Message Board. No, that was made by pre-human proto-hampsters. Minature giant space hampsters, to be precise. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-man-made-thing-found/352614.md?page=2)