# Oldest phrases/expressions used in today's English **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 7, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178 "2019-04-07T17:29:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/1 "2019-04-07T17:29:54Z")
English belongs to the Indo-European language tree which has its origin about 4000 BC. [Indo-European languages - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages) Many words have etymology tracing back to 1000 BC or more. What are some of the oldest phrases/expressions in the modern day English language ? ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/2 "2019-04-07T18:16:30Z")
I can’t think of any, but I hope this thread takes off ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/3 "2019-04-07T18:27:00Z")
I’d expect they’d be either some kind of greeting or farewell. Of course it might be “Get off my lawn!” ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/4 "2019-04-07T18:28:09Z")
nevermind, misread the title. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/5 "2019-04-07T18:36:17Z")
Dubious authenticity, but dating from around 878: Housewife “You burnt my cakes!” From 1170: King Henry II “Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?” From 1805: Admiral Nelson “Thank God, I have done my duty.” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/6 "2019-04-07T18:40:47Z")
I would think a word or phrase denoting ‘food’ or ‘let’s eat’, ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/7 "2019-04-07T18:53:38Z")
mama dada? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/8 "2019-04-07T18:56:32Z")
This is a table of words in most modern Indo-European languages that apparently go back to Proto-Indo-European: > **[Indo-European vocabulary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary)** > > The following is a table of many of the most fundamental Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) words and roots, with their cognates in all of the major families of descendants. > The following conventions are used: > OIr māthir "mother"; W modryb "auntie" > Kurdish xwişk "sister" sw- \> xw- These are names of relatives, body parts, numbers, animals, body functions, mental states, directions, time words, etc. Phrases would be harder to trace back. I don’t know if that’s what you really mean. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/9 "2019-04-07T18:57:32Z")
Here is a nice olde one, A byrde yn honde ys better than three yn the wode. [[c. 1530](https://www.etymonline.com/word/bird)] ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/10 "2019-04-07T19:13:30Z")
I’m going to be really depressed if it turns out to be, “Heaven must be missing an angel…” ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/11 "2019-04-07T19:19:23Z")
There are many sayings and phrases that [come from the Bible](https://unlockingthebible.org/2012/03/37-common-english-sayings-from-the-bible/), including: Bite the dust The blind leading the blind By the skin of your teeth Broken heart Can a leopard change his spots? Cast the first stone Eat, drink, and be merry Eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth Fall from grace Fly in the ointment For everything there is a season Forbidden fruit Go the extra mile He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword How the mighty have fallen Pride comes before a fall Put words in one’s mouth Rise and shine See eye to eye Sign of the times Straight and narrow Twinkling of an eye There’s nothing new under the sun Wash your hands of the matter Wolves in sheep’s clothing The writing’s on the wall ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/12 "2019-04-07T19:43:30Z")
“What’s your sign?” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/13 "2019-04-07T20:08:22Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > There are many sayings and phrases that [come from the Bible](https://unlockingthebible.org/2012/03/37-common-english-sayings-from-the-bible/), including: > > [SNIP] > > Eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth That one actually predates the Bible. The [Code of Hammurabi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi), 1754 BCE, says (in one translation), “If a man destroy the eye of another man, they shall destroy his eye. If one break a man’s bone, they shall break his bone. If one destroy the eye of a freeman or break the bone of a freeman he shall pay one gold mina. If one destroy the eye of a man’s slave or break a bone of a man’s slave he shall pay one-half his price.” So not exactly the same phrase, but the sentiment is there. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/14 "2019-04-07T20:36:36Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I don’t know if that’s what you really mean. The OP is confusing, because it talks about words with “etymology tracing back,” however, that has nothing to do with a phrase or expression used in today’s English which is just a translation of something from an old text in another language. All of those expressions that **Walken after Midnight** lists from the Bible were not written in English. They’re just translations, and are not “traced back” to to anything. So I don’t see the point of the first two sentences in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/15 "2019-04-07T21:39:33Z")
I remember the Guinness Book of Records 1980 edition had an entry for oldest words in the English language. There were four words listed of which I am pretty sure two were “apple” and “gold”. Is there any basis for this claim? Are these words thought to be older than other PIE roots? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/16 "2019-04-07T22:16:35Z")
Ther nis no werkman, whatsoevere he be, That may bothe werke wel and hastily. Geoffrey Chaucer 1343-1400 Researchers found that the frequency with which a word is used relates to how slowly it changes through time, so that the most common words tend to be the oldest ones. For example, the words “I” and “who” are among the oldest, along with the words “two”, “three”, and “five”. The word “one” is only slightly younger. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/17 "2019-04-07T22:25:44Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > I remember the Guinness Book of Records 1980 edition had an entry for oldest words in the English language. There were four words listed of which I am pretty sure two were “apple” and “gold”. Is there any basis for this claim? Are these words thought to be older than other PIE roots? [what The Beeb has](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7911645.stm) to say on the matter ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/18 "2019-04-07T22:58:59Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > This is a table of words in most modern Indo-European languages that apparently go back to Proto-Indo-European: > > [Indo-European vocabulary - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary) From that list: Proto-Indo-European \*_yū_ and Modern English _you_: pronunciation and meaning both completely unchanged for 5,000 years. You could make a case for \*_sem_- and _same_ having the same pronunciation and meaning. There are plenty others on the list that are really close, like \*_webh_- and _web_, \*_bher_- and _bear_ (carry) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/19 "2019-04-07T23:49:09Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > All of those expressions that **Walken after Midnight** lists from the Bible were not written in English. They’re just translations, and are not “traced back” to to anything. So I don’t see the point of the first two sentences in the OP. I expect most, if not all, those Biblical phrases didn’t become common phrases or idioms in English until many people had a chance to read it in English. That would likely be sometime in the 16th-17th centuries. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178/20 "2019-04-08T02:13:12Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > This is a table of words in most modern Indo-European languages that apparently go back to Proto-Indo-European: > > [Indo-European vocabulary - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary) > > These are names of relatives, body parts, numbers, animals, body functions, mental states, directions, time words, etc. Phrases would be harder to trace back. I don’t know if that’s what you really mean. Thank you Wendell Wagner. I was aware of that list. Those are some of the earliest words used in English today. I am looking for phrases/expressions that are as old as the above words (if not older). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oldest-phrases-expressions-used-in-todays-english/832178.md?page=2)