# Olentzero and Guinastasia on the Russian Revolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2001, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431 "2001-08-15T19:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/121 "2001-09-01T11:08:02Z")
Yes, it’s in two different books, but neither actually gives their source for the comment - was it a letter? A conversation? It’s kind of like that email that says Microsoft will give you $5 for every person you forward this e-mail to - you may have gotten it from two friends, but if you check with Microsoft you’ll find it’s not actually true. Not that I’m saying I believe your quote is untrue, it’s just not verified to my satisfaction. Kerensky says Lenin said it. What proof does he provide? Massie says Wolfe says Lenin said it. What proof does Wolfe provide? Do you see the point I’m trying to make? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/122 "2001-09-01T17:36:56Z")
Yeah, your point is that you won’t accept any evidence other than things in Lenin’s own handwriting, and even then only when it helps you. Otherwise, you just claim the _context_ is missing. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/123 "2001-09-01T17:49:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*Yes, it’s in two different books, but neither actually gives their source for the comment - was it a letter? A conversation? > > It’s kind of like that email that says Microsoft will give you $5 for every person you forward this e-mail to - you may have gotten it from two friends, but if you check with Microsoft you’ll find it’s not actually true. > > Not that I’m saying I believe your quote is untrue, it’s just not verified to my satisfaction. Kerensky says Lenin said it. What proof does he provide? Massie says Wolfe says Lenin said it. What proof does Wolfe provide? > > Do you see the point I’m trying to make? \*\* Another one of my books, Edmund Taylor’s _Fall of the Dynasties_ also uses the quote, and it was said to Gorky. I suppose one could look it up-I’ll keep trying. But really, it seems as if this is the LEAST of Lenin’s brutality. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/124 "2001-09-01T18:02:01Z")
A few websites that also quote it-it was from a letter to Gorky, as I said: [http://members.nbci.com/7897401/red2.htm](http://members.nbci.com/7897401/red2.htm) [http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/pm\_lr.htm](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/pm_lr.htm) This page gives the quote and attributes it to the Collected Works of Lenin-it has a footnote. You’re grasping at straws, _tovarish_ 😉 (Just a stupid question, though-I saw the HBO miniseries, Stalin, in 10th grade, and Lenin was always pictured with a cat or a kitten on his lap-did he really like cats?) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/125 "2001-09-02T00:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*(Just a stupid question, though-I saw the HBO miniseries, Stalin, in 10th grade, and Lenin was always pictured with a cat or a kitten on his lap-did he really like cats?) \*\* Well, here’s a picture of him with a cat courtesy of the Moscow Cat Museum. [http://www.moscowcatmuseum.com/eng/06.html](http://www.moscowcatmuseum.com/eng/06.html) This picture is captioned “LENIN WITH WIFE AND CAT, AFTER TAKING POWER”…I don’t see the cat, myself, but it’s a bad picture, and I might be missing it: [http://store5.yimg.com/I/movingcentury\_1626\_59052411](http://store5.yimg.com/I/movingcentury_1626_59052411) So, he seems to have liked cats. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/126 "2001-09-02T02:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*This page gives the quote and attributes it to the Collected Works of Lenin-it has a footnote. > > You’re grasping at straws, _tovarish_ > ;)\*\* I don’t see it that way - I was looking for an ironclad backup to your assertion and you’ve provided it. Now I’ll see what I can do to find the whole letter and come back to you on this point when I’ve done some further studying. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sam Stone_ > **Yeah, your point is that you won’t accept any evidence other than things in Lenin’s own handwriting, and even then only when it helps you.** Did I or did I not examine and use two sources you provided to back up my arguments? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2001, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/127 "2001-09-02T02:28:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > **This picture is captioned “LENIN WITH WIFE AND CAT, AFTER TAKING POWER”…I don’t see the cat, myself, but it’s a bad picture, and I might be missing it** That’s a still frame from some film footage; there is a cat in that particular sequence but it’s already been put on the floor, if I remember correctly. And by “put down on the floor” I mean quickly arrested for harboring Orthodox Church valuables and shot without trial in a Siberian labor camp. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2001, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431/128 "2001-09-02T22:46:20Z")
Heh, cool. I have quite a few pictures of the Romanov children playing with kittens, and at the [alexanderpalace.org](http://alexanderpalace.org) site there’s a picture of Olga’s cat, Vaska. Sorry, just a hijack from a cat lover…please continue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-and-guinastasia-on-the-russian-revolution/76431.md?page=6)