# Olentzero, it’s OK to be wrong **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087 "2009-12-21T17:17:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/1 "2009-12-21T17:17:05Z")
**Note for the spectators:** \*This is a response to an interaction with Olentzero in an [IMHO](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=543724) thread. It’s here because poster-directed sentiments such as **you’re a fucking idiot** and a **you have a pathetically fragile ego** aren’t allowed in other forums. \* **Olentzero** , you’re a fucking hypertool with a pathetically fragile ego who is too obstinate and/or stupid to realize they were wrong. Do a search on a phrase like “ignorance fought” and you’ll see that most productive members of the board don’t desperately hold out in the face of being wrong, most don’t cling like pitiful toddlers to the notion that they were right. The sad part is that you tried pulling on your big-girl panties and snarking at **friedo** , losing any pretence at your later claims of just arguing how it should be and lamenting your oppression by made-up pendants. Abject stupidity enters because you had a perfectly reasonable out/explanation, but instead of realizing it you chose to get those big-girl panties all in a bunch. Letting it go would have been so much easier — and so much more correct — than putting your lack of reading comprehension on display. Sorry to make this longer, but it might be worth it to try one more time to get through the defences your poor ego has put up to protect you from yourself. Here’s the original statement: > [@Amateur Grammar Authorities](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amateur-grammar-authorities/521117/6): > > Are you American? If so, periods inside the quotation marks, correct? Here’s your wrong correction: > [@Amateur Grammar Authorities](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amateur-grammar-authorities/521117/9): > > I believe that only applies to reported speech. Not “I think it should,” not “it would make more sense if,” nothing more than a blatant factual error in the form of a statement about what a rule is. The reported speech rule is British usage, not American. **Freido** re-corrects: > [@Amateur Grammar Authorities](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amateur-grammar-authorities/521117/12): > > “Nope.” You make an ass out of yourself with a pretentious snark, but fail miserably – he and **stratocaster** were correct: > [@Amateur Grammar Authorities](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amateur-grammar-authorities/521117/18): > > Do please try to avoid the one-word bon mots in the future, dear chap; they’re best fit for gay cocktail parties on the lawn and convivial evenings at the supper club rather than discussions of grammar and punctuation. And then only if you’re Oscar Wilde. I go on to provide relevant cites from _Chicago_, you go on to move goalposts, dodge, weave, and do your best to spread ignorance. This is my favorite bit: > [@Amateur Grammar Authorities](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amateur-grammar-authorities/521117/52): > > Getting called on your weak, marginally supported cite puts the obligation of saying why it’s done that way on you. In short: yes, you _do_ need to say why. And pointing to the CMS, which just says “well, we’ve always done it this way” just doesn’t cut it. So far you’ve done nothing but deepen my conviction that you have no grounds to call my approach incorrect because you are unable to justify your approach beyond an appeal to tradition. So, in the world according to **Olentzero** , the _Chicago Manual of Style_ is a weak, marginally supported cite? Are you fucking kidding me? I can maybe see a couple people out there debating _Chicago_ versus _AP_ (not me), but weak and marginally supported? If that’s a \*\*weak \*\*source (you certainly didn’t mean I made a vague reference to it because I included section numbers), then there must be a guide for American usage that dwarfs it, right? Fuck it, is there a guide in widespread use that even contradicts it? Here’s another fun bit: you hop around shouting (and misusing) PEDANT PEDANT PEDANT! as if that would make a difference. No, it doesn’t. It would be no more pedantic to correct you than if you told someone to capitalize all verbs. You tried to correct someone with _incorrect_ information and you got called on it. Simple as that. No appeal to an esoteric source, no pointing to Byzantine rules of usage. No attempt (or need) to say _why_, just accurate information to correct your wrong post. You weren’t being corrected on _your usage_, you were being corrected on your _incorrect statement of fact_. You fucked up a widespread convention. You made an assinine comment to **freido**. You were wrong. Go play with your cereal coma. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/2 "2009-12-21T17:44:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Go play with your cereal coma. What does this mean? If it is a pun, it is too subtle for me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/3 "2009-12-21T17:48:24Z")
I was wondering about that myself. “Cereal coma” ? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/4 "2009-12-21T17:51:16Z")
There are some subjects that are almost impossible to have reasoned discussions about. Wars are started about them. The big three are probably politics, religion, and punctuation. The war of 1812 started when King George III received a letter from James Madison that put the period inside the quotation marks, rather than on the exterior. This infuriated the King, so he burned Madison’s house down. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/5 "2009-12-21T17:51:22Z")
I think it’s some sort of joke about serial commas. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/6 "2009-12-21T17:51:28Z")
Serial comma/cereal coma. Not quite a pun (not quite good enough for that). More of an allusion to the inane fights people get in over using/not using it. Kind of like TP direction or shoes on/off in a house. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/7 "2009-12-21T17:57:38Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The sad part is that you tried pulling on your big-girl panties and snarking at **friedo** , losing any pretence at your later claims of just arguing how it should be and lamenting your oppression by made-up pendants. Well, he went to Jared. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/8 "2009-12-21T17:57:46Z")
No comment on the OP, but I will continue to “put my periods outside quotation marks”, and you can’t stop “me”. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/9 "2009-12-21T17:58:45Z")
Missed edit window: I don’t give a shit where the punctuation goes (no wars here), except to be in line with what my client would want. If they specify British usage, that’s the convention I’ll follow. If they don’t specify, but I know it’s going to a European audience, I’ll follow the British convention. If I’m posting on the Dope or working with an American client, guess which convention I’ll follow. My umbrage isn’t in the convention or whether or not it’s applied. It’s in the shitty attitude upon being corrected with an easily verifiable and widespread usage – especially when one of the initial statements included an unnecessarily shitty snark. ETA: > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, he went to Jared. Now _that_ was funny. (It’s also why I have proofers on staff.) ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/10 "2009-12-21T19:11:35Z")
> [@really not all that bright](#): > > no comment on the op, but i will continue to “put my periods outside quotation marks”, and you can’t stop “me”. My eyes! MY EYES!!! ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/11 "2009-12-21T19:45:02Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Do a search on a phrase like “ignorance fought” and you’ll see that most productive members of the board don’t desperately hold out in the face of being wrong, most don’t cling like pitiful toddlers to the notion that they were right. Which board have you been reading?😉 ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/12 "2009-12-21T19:46:19Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, he went to Jared. Funny. And I hate those radio spots for that place. Painful singing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/13 "2009-12-21T19:46:50Z")
I would assume that the most productive members of the board don’t post at all. 'Cause I post a ton, and I never get any damn work done. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/14 "2009-12-21T20:24:22Z")
I haven’t been peripherally involved in such a major controversy since the Sino-Prussian Dangling Modifier Crisis of 1837. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/15 "2009-12-21T20:31:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I haven’t been peripherally involved in such a major controversy since the Sino-Prussian Dangling Modifier Crisis of 1837. Yeah, but that was before scientists split the infinitive. Whole new ballgame now – one with a whole new set of “'”“rules”.“';”¿ ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/16 "2009-12-21T20:32:10Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > serial commas. ellipses with tails, ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/17 "2009-12-21T20:57:36Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > serial commas. > [@Squink](#): > > ellipses with tails, Brown paper packages tied up with string ~ ~ ~ ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/18 "2009-12-21T21:23:45Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > ellipses with tails, Is this how you punctuate a pregnant pause? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/19 "2009-12-21T22:10:34Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > Is this how you punctuate a pregnant pause? Fun. Fun Worry worry worry? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087/20 "2009-12-21T22:20:06Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I haven’t been peripherally involved in such a major controversy since the Sino-Prussian Dangling Modifier Crisis of 1837. I understand\* that the ‘Oxford Comma’ is so-called because Oxford was partially burned to the ground in the 12th century, due to a punctuation dispute gone horribly awry. - I understand a lot of stuff that is complete bullshit, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olentzero-it-s-ok-to-be-wrong/522087.md?page=2)