# Oliver Stone: Fidel's Leni Riefenstahl..only dumber. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369 "2004-04-16T15:16:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/1 "2004-04-16T15:16:19Z")
From [Slate](http://slate.msn.com/id/2098860/) Apparently crappy film making about the Kennedy assasination ain’t enough. Now Oliver has to show us how great a dude Fidel Castro is. First he makes **Comandante** for HBO, when Fidel rounds up 75 dissidents and throws them in jail…it just serves to highlight how ridiculous his hummer for Fidel turned out. So HBO tells him to do it again…and this time make it more credible, and we end up with **Looking For Fidel** …it has Hallmark After School Special written all over. The interview he gives to Slate defies credulity. To see how prisoners are treated in Cuba, Stone interviews 8 eight of them. Dressed in nice perfectly starched shirts. In front of Castro. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > ALB: Let me ask you about the part [in the film] where Castro’s in front of eight prisoners charged with attempting to hijack a plane [to Miami]. He says to them, “I want you all to speak frankly and freely.” What do you make of that whole scene, where you have these prisoners who happened to be wearing perfectly starched, nice blue shirts? > > OS: Let me give you the background. He obviously set it up overnight. It was in that spirit that he said, “Ask whatever you want. I’m sitting here. I want to hear it too. I want to hear what they’re thinking.” He let me run the tribunal, so to speak. > > ALB: But Cuba’s leader for life is sitting in front of these guys who are facing life in prison, and you’re asking them, “Are you well treated in prison?” Did you think they could honestly answer that question? > > OS: If they were being horribly mistreated, then I don’t know that they could be worse mistreated [afterward]. > > ALB: So in other words, you think they thought this was their best shot to air grievances? Rather than that if they did speak candidly, there’d be hell to pay when they got back to prison? > OS: I must say, you’re really picturing a Stalinist state. It doesn’t feel that way. You can always find horrible prisons if you go to any country in Central America. > > \*\*ALB: Did you go to the prisons in Cuba? > > OS: No, I didn’t.\*\* \ > [@](#): > > ALB: To me, one of the most interesting exchanges in the film is when you ask, “Why did you decide to shoot these three hijackers on the eighth day?” And he bristles and says, “I didn’t shoot anyone, personally.” You respond, “Well, OK, the state shot these three guys on the eighth day.” He then says, “Of course, I take my share of responsibility.” > > OS: He was a huge part of the state, and now, as he points out, he has less power. … There is a functioning congress. > > \*\*ALB: Do you really think that anything happens in Cuba without his approval? > > OS: I don’t know.\*\* Good frickin’ gravy. Stone makes Michael Moore look like a thoughtful cinematic genius. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/2 "2004-04-16T16:58:33Z")
Jesus, I was going to pit this myself. Oliver Stone, please seek therapy. I loved this quote (and by ‘loved’, I mean ‘was made sick by’): > [@](#): > > ‘There was that paternalism. I mean ‘father knows best,’ as opposed to totalitarianism. It’s paternalism, that’s what I meant. It’s a Latin thing.’ And then he excuses Castro’s dictatorship because, well, we had that confusing 2000 presidential election, so really we shouldn’t criticize. Oliver Stone, you are a deranged apologist for dictatorship. You sucked up to Castro like Marriane Faithful sucked up to the Rolling Stones. You fucking child. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/3 "2004-04-16T17:26:45Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > To see how prisoners are treated in Cuba, Stone interviews 8 eight of them. For a moment there I thought the US had allowed visits to Guantanamo but I see it is the Cubans who are allowing prisoners to be interviewed. Oh well. Maybe the USA will take notes and follow suit some day. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/4 "2004-04-16T17:41:01Z")
So **sailor** wants us to be like a totalitarian dictatorship making show for good PR while not-so secretly crushing dissent with jail time? And all this time I thought **sailor** was angry at Pres. Bush when he called him a fascist! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/5 "2004-04-16T18:03:49Z")
I didn’t watch the Stone film, but I read somewhere that he made two films that were meant to be companions to each other – the first one is a softer-than-usual personal look at Castro himself, and the second is a more critical look at Castro’s government. I think a lot of people outside the United States have a hard time “getting” the American attitude toward Cuba, in the light of friendly relationships between the U.S. and some governments which register far, far higher on the Index of Evil. As for transparency about Cuban prisons, it’s fun to look at these two recent articles side-by-each. [Transparency about Cuban Prison](http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/04/16/build/nation/50-gitmo-myths.inc) [Transparency about Cuban Prison](http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23163) Maybe apples and oranges, but there are certain pleasing parallels. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/6 "2004-04-16T18:07:02Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > For a moment there I thought the US had allowed visits to Guantanamo but I see it is the Cubans who are allowing prisoners to be interviewed. Oh well. Maybe the USA will take notes and follow suit some day. If by “allowing prisoners to be interviewed”…you mean setting up a sham interview session, trooping out hand picked prisoners to be “interviewed” in front of someone who will easily decide whether they live or die the next day…Then sure, I guess that’s something to aspire to. If you really think that what happened with Stone was an “interview”, I’m sure you’d fit in swimmingly with the Stone Production Team. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/7 "2004-04-16T18:32:26Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > If by “allowing prisoners to be interviewed”…you mean setting up a sham interview session, trooping out hand picked prisoners to be “interviewed” in front of someone who will easily decide whether they live or die the next day…Then sure, I guess that’s something to aspire to. > > If you really think that what happened with Stone was an “interview”, I’m sure you’d fit in swimmingly with the Stone Production Team. I am not defending Castro. Just saying that it is more than the USA is allowing the prisoners in Guantanamo. That’s all. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@Johnny\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_G)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/8 "2004-04-16T18:38:45Z")
Castro is a herothat stood up against US agression when they tried to take over Cuba for the second time during the Bay of Pigs. The US has a habit of trying to conquor Cuba and other countries and should stop. Anyone who stands up to the US and it’s agressive policies should be called a hero and statues should be made in their honor. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/9 "2004-04-16T18:50:26Z")
> [@Johnny G](#): > > Castro is a herothat stood up against US agression when they tried to take over Cuba for the second time during the Bay of Pigs. The US has a habit of trying to conquor Cuba and other countries and should stop. Anyone who stands up to the US and it’s agressive policies should be called a hero and statues should be made in their honor. FIGHT THE POWER! FREE MUMIA! BUSH IS HITLER! ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/10 "2004-04-16T18:52:47Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I am not defending Castro. Just saying that it is more than the USA is allowing the prisoners in Guantanamo. That’s all. Just saying. Well I’m not arguing in support of Gitmo. You are using the word “allowing” to suggest that Castro is “allowing” something to happen. I doubt he is “allowing” anything. He’s parading some prisoners in front of a “friendly” camera crew and (I suspect) offering one hell of an incentive (positive or negative) for them to be “interviewed”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/11 "2004-04-16T18:52:49Z")
> [@Johnny G](#): > > Castro is a herothat stood up against US agression when they tried to take over Cuba for the second time during the Bay of Pigs. The US has a habit of trying to conquor Cuba and other countries and should stop. Anyone who stands up to the US and it’s agressive policies should be called a hero and statues should be made in their honor. Well, yes, if by “hero” you mean “Marxist dictator for life with an appalling [human rights record](http://hrw.org/wr2k3/americas5.html)”. And by all means raise a statue to Castro. Then shove it as far up your nose as you can manage. Ask if you need help. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/12 "2004-04-16T18:58:13Z")
> [@Johnny G](#): > > Castro is a herothat stood up against US agression when they tried to take over Cuba for the second time during the Bay of Pigs. The US has a habit of trying to conquor Cuba and other countries and should stop. Anyone who stands up to the US and it’s agressive policies should be called a hero and statues should be made in their honor. Damn…school out already? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/13 "2004-04-16T19:17:05Z")
I’m proud to say I once pissed-off Oliver Stone. About ten years ago I reviewed a “baby video” for _Movieline_, and I viewed it with an actual baby of my acquaintance. I wrote, “Marisa reacted to this video the same way I do to Oliver Stone movies: she cried for awhile and then fell asleep.” We got a letter from Oliver Stone’s “people” saying he was not amused and to please lay off. _Hee!_ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/14 "2004-04-16T19:40:08Z")
"Who was the first to conquer space? It’s incontrovertible That the first to conquer living space Is Castro Convertible Who conquers space with fine design? Who saves you money all the time? Who’s tops in the convertible line? Castro Convertible! This started going through my head thanks to this thread, so I decided that someone else should suffer too. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/15 "2004-04-16T21:11:41Z")
I’ve never liked Oliver Stone, on a personal level, although I never had a good reason not to. (I mean, aside from his movies.) Now I’ve got an entirely legitimate reason to hate the sumbitch. Isn’t it wonderful when people you dislike live down to your expectations? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/16 "2004-04-16T21:27:21Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I am not defending Castro. Just saying that it is more than the USA is allowing the prisoners in Guantanamo. That’s all. Just saying. You’re saying what you always do: the U.S. never does the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/17 "2004-04-16T21:57:50Z")
A guy I knew in high school got to visit Cuba briefly when his mom attended a professional conference there. He completely fell for it. EVERYTHING. Came back talking about how it was a worker’s paradise and what a great leader Fidel was. Oliver Stone, however, is not a 15-year-old suburban kid, so _I’m_ definitely pretty confused here. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/18 "2004-04-16T22:22:25Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > You’re saying what you always do: the U.S. never does the right thing. That is a non argument. Or do you dispute any of my assertions? I say the US is not doing the right thing in Guantanamo. You can agree or disagree but since the best you can do is attack me personally I take it you have no arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/19 "2004-04-16T22:27:53Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > That is a non argument. Or do you dispute any of my assertions? I say the US is not doing the right thing in Guantanamo. You can agree or disagree but since the best you can do is attack me personally I take it you have no arguments. I won’t dispute your arguments, but I would like to know what the hell they have to do with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369/20 "2004-04-16T22:32:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I won’t dispute your arguments, but I would like to know what the hell they have to do with the OP. If you read my first post you will see it was just a BTW comment which seems a propos when we are (rightly) condemning human rights abuses in Cuba. At any rate and regarding Oliver Stone, I just avoid his movies as they do not interest me. I understand some people might like his fantasies but what I don’t understand are those who take his movies for documentaries. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oliver-stone-fidels-leni-riefenstahl-only-dumber/240369.md?page=2)