# Oliver's Army - rockers and Brits **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2003, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610 "2003-02-12T17:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/1 "2003-02-12T17:46:17Z")
There’s recently been a resurgence of popularity for Elvis Costello’s music, here at work, and this got me wondering about the behind one of my all-time favorite songs, Elvis’s _Oliver’s Army_ . This is the song that features, among others, the infamous line “one more widow, one less white nigger”. (Note to mods: this is NOT why it’s one of my faves, nor am I advocating blowing anyone away.) Great tune; interesting lyrics. Obviously, this is a protest song, but it isn’t clear what he was/is protesting. If I knew at the time the song was released, I’ve long since forgotten. So, the questions are; who is/was Oliver and what was so unusual about his army that it inspired this song? ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/2 "2003-02-12T17:48:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Davebear \* > \*\*wondering about the behind one of my all-time favorite songs, \*\* Aaargh! Obviously, this was **supposed** to say _“wondering about the STORY behind…”_ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/3 "2003-02-12T18:05:04Z")
It’s a bit of piss-off about mercenaries. I don’t think “Oliver” is anyone in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/4 "2003-02-12T18:22:09Z")
From the FAQ pages of [The Elvis Costello Home Page](http://www.elviscostello.info/index.html): > [@](#): > > Oliver’s Army - About the invasion of Ireland in 1649 led by Oliver Cromwell and modern British occupation of N. Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/5 "2003-02-12T19:53:09Z")
I presume the white niggers were the Irish. Cromwell is hated to the nth degree over here. > [@](#): > > His first target was the town of Drogheda north of Dublin which he stormed and captured. Perhaps 2,500 men, mainly in arms, were killed during the storm and several hundred more - all the officers, all Catholic priests and friars, every tenth common soldier - were killed, many clubbed to death. It was in accordance with the laws of war, but it went far beyond what any General had done in England. Cromwell then perpetrated a messier massacre at Wexford. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/monarchs\_leaders/cromwell3.shtml](http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/monarchs_leaders/cromwell3.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/6 "2003-02-12T20:56:48Z")
Since this is about a song, I’ll move this thread to Cafe Society. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![oliversarmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/eb8c5e/32.png) [@oliversarmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oliversarmy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/7 "2003-02-12T21:00:58Z")
Holy crap! I thought this was about me. That would be a first. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Lots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Lots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Lots)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/8 "2003-02-13T01:13:14Z")
Oliver Cromwell founded the New Model Army (the army, not the band), the original professional army in Britain. The song is about war in general, but from a UK perspective. Hence all the references to British wars and the British Empire (“Hong Kong is up for grabs”, “we could be in Palestine”, “we can send you to Johannesburg”). The general message is “wars are bad, mm’kay?” But the world ain’t listening. ---
**Author:** ![Theom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@Theom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theom)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/9 "2003-02-13T12:02:28Z")
Interestingly, although not entirly relevent, Cromwell’s invasion of Ireland was the Originality of the phrase “By Hook or by Crook” as he invaded on the Hook Peninsular and was determined. Or Something. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/10 "2003-02-13T12:49:54Z")
Thanks, everyone. I looked at a site that billed itself as “the official” Elvis Costello homepage, but it was a different site than the one Kal found. All it had was the lyrics to the song. WRONG lyrics, oddly enough. I guess Elvis was saying he didn’t approve of Cromwell’s tactics and the British army hadn’t changed since Cromwell’s day. That’s pretty much what I wanted to know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/11 "2003-02-13T13:36:06Z")
I haven’t looked at the links but my feeling has always been that ‘white niggers’ is a reference to the working-class kids / soldiers in general (‘boys from the Mersey and the Thames and the Tyne …) and how they were used to further the empire, and those set to prosper from the empire. So I assumed he was using ‘nigger’ to point up that enlisting in the army from the abject poverty of an urban existence is little different to slavery; eg. you have no vested interest or prospects but the boss will make money off your back … How times change … errrr …. ---
**Author:** ![lout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@lout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lout)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/12 "2003-02-13T13:58:37Z")
During this part of his career, Costello was able to construct interesting songs from what appear to be almost random snippets of language. So what’s “Moods for Moderns” all about? ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivers-army-rockers-and-brits/154610/13 "2003-02-13T17:14:58Z")
From what I recall from research into my dissertation (jazz and blues influences on structure of fiction) and _The Commitments_, the Irish were often depicted as minstrel-style blacks in editorial cartoons earlier in the century. To kind of quote Jimmy Rabbit (because I don’t have the book handy): The Irish are the niggers of Europe. Dubliners are the niggers of Ireland. Northsiders are the niggers of Dublin. Say it loud, "I’m black and I’m proud.