# Olympic skier loses bronze medal due to OTC inhaler **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2002, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540 "2002-03-22T15:41:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/21 "2002-03-24T11:38:34Z")
There was a tv interview where he held up to the camera one of each of the Vicks nasal sprays. One was British and the other American. The British one had been approved and he had used it but it had simply run out. Here is the kicker, they both looked exactly the some, no differances whatsoever, except in that tiny writing on the side, but since the British one was ok then there was no obvious reason to look. One tends to find the same products all over the world, in fact with globalisation of manufacture one would reasonably expect it to be the same. If a US citizen came over here to the UK and bought a product that looked, felt and tasted exactly the same as the one that could be purchased back home I’m sure they would pretty much take it for granted that both of them were the same. There is no such thing as absolute justice, each case must be taken on its own merits or injustice will occur. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/22 "2002-03-24T16:05:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > \*\*If a US citizen came over here to the UK and bought a product that looked, felt and tasted exactly the same as the one that could be purchased back home I’m sure they would pretty much take it for granted that both of them were the same. > \*\* But it wasn’t just a _citizen_, it was an Olympic athlete. After the Romanian (?) gymnast lost a medal in 2000 for a similar offense, don’t you think Olympic athletes should be on their guard more? I’m with **wring** on this, you have to look at this through the eyes of an Olympic athlete, not a casual citizen. They are held to a higher standard and are responsible for knowing exactly what goes into their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/23 "2002-03-24T16:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > \*\*There is no such thing as absolute justice, each case must be taken on its own merits or injustice will occur. \*\* But making exceptions to rules is even more dangerous, I would think. I’ve got to agree with **wring**. If you start forgiving every “honest” or “understandable” mistake, you can’t have a competition at all. ---
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/24 "2002-03-25T00:29:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke \* > \*\*As far as the result goes, I have no question that his bronze medal should be taken away, even if it can be proven that he took the amphetamines “inadvertantly.” After all, he had an unfair advantage over the other competitors… \*\* Did he? What advantage is that? Also note the packaging for the UK and US products are almost identical, except for the active ingredients list. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/25 "2002-03-25T07:33:28Z")
This seems a fairly clear-cut case to me: 1. The drug he took was not performance enhancing. 2. He has a plausable explanation for why he took it. 3. For the purposes of his medal, 1 & 2 are probably irrelevant. The medals are subject to zero toleance on this score (although that can be overturned). I think it might be a good time to remove levo-methamphetamine from the hit list, if it’s possible to. 4. He should not face a lifetime Olympic ban. 5. He should not face a 2 year International Skiing Federation ban. If they feel they must be seen to be punishing him, a 3 month ban will expire before the season begins 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/26 "2002-03-25T15:27:50Z")
**glee** , I had forgotten Eddie ‘The Eagle’. He was that daring young man who entered the Olympics just to prove to the rest of us that ski jumping is, indeed, a difficult sport. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/27 "2002-03-25T15:44:12Z")
All I know is that the night Alain Baxter won Britain’s first _ever_ not-on-ice Winter Olympics medal, I was about as excited as I’ve been about a sporting moment for a very, very long time. We beat the alpine countries at their own damn game and it was _good_. That haul of two bronzes and a gold was our best since… what… 1926 or something? And now I’m not quite sure how to remember it. Anybody? How am I supposed to feel about this? Do I feel proud of the guy or not? I certainly feel incredibly sorry for him, I tell you that. If he’s got to lose the medal because of some kind of zero-tolerance policing, so be it I guess. But to ban him forever, for using what he thought was the same OTC medicine that he had already been cleared to use - well that just seems beyond the pale. pan ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/28 "2002-03-25T15:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > \*\*And now I’m not quite sure how to remember it. > > Anybody? How am I supposed to feel about this? Do I feel proud of the guy or not? I certainly feel incredibly sorry for him, I tell you that. > \*\* If it matters to you, there is nothing in the circumstances of the removal of the medal that should lessen your pride. 1. He’s given a reasonable explanation. 2. The drug he took was not performance enhancing. 3. He won the medal originally. Had he not taken the inhaler, he’d still have won (all other things being equal) and would still have it. ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/29 "2002-03-26T01:10:50Z")
The point is: _He didn’t take a banned substance_. There are two types of metamphetamine, L and D. L is the type that is found in the inhaler and is not a performance-enhancing drug. D is commonly known as “speed” and is banned. All he has to do is prove this and he’ll be in the clear. > **[He couldn't believe he had won it. Now ski hero mourns loss of miracle medal](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/mar/22/olympicgames.sport1)** > > I'm not a drugs cheat, insists Baxter, after losing Olympic bronze. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/30 "2002-03-26T08:30:24Z")
AFAIK, and from the article you cite, L _is_ banned: > [@](#): > > Reliving how he made the error of taking the banned substance Not that I’m saying it should be (if it isn’t performance enhancing). I’d guess that it’s difficult to test serperately for the two types, but that’s a WAG (assuming WAG means “Wild-assed guess” or similar :)). I suspect that even if the IOC acknowledges this, the medal will be lost anyway (strict liability), but that’s another WAG. ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/31 "2002-03-27T00:04:54Z")
I still think he’s got a good case _providing_ he can prove he took L not D. His urine sample is locked away in the Olympic committee’s lab. There’s only 2 options: Either he used the inhaler like he said or he snorted a load of speed shortly before his run. The latter would seem unlikely. If he was gonna cheat, he wouldn’t use speed. He’d have been using steroids for months before to build up his muscles. Why use speed when he’d obviously be caught straight away? Especially when you consider that he fancied his chances anyway, why would he take the risk? If L is banned then it shouldn’t be since it isn’t performance-enhancing. So if he can prove he took L then he should be awarded the medal, strict liability or not. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/32 "2002-03-27T00:52:58Z")
Hi, alpine ski racer/coach checking in here. Just a few things that need to be pointed out here. The International Ski Federation (FIS) has penalties for inadvertant doping as well as intentional doping. > [@](#): > > _From the [FIS website](http://www.fis-ski.com/rulesandpublications/medicaldoping.html)_ > FIS Sanction Catalogue > 1.2 Inadvertent use of doping > 1.2.1 Suspension from participation in all international ski competitions for 3 > months for the first offence (during a fixed period within the actual or next > competition season). > 1.2.2 Suspension from participation in all international ski competitions for 2 years > for the second offence. > 1.2.3 Suspension from participation in all international competitions for life-time for > the third offence. In addition, the FIS rules go on to say: > [@](#): > > **Thus no product for use in colds, flu or hay fever purchased by a > competitor or given to him/her should be used without first checking > with a doctor or pharmacist that the product does not contain a drug > of the banned stimulant class.** IMO, the 2 year ban won’t stick, but he will serve a 3 month ban, probably at the begining of next season (probably begining in November with the new points list). As far as the medal goes, I agree it’s a shame he inadvertantly lost it. However, given the penalty for inadvertant doping, it would seem that he has no chance of getting it back. I don’t know the IOC doping rules well enough to comment on his chances of fighting the lifetime Olympic ban. Hopefully, they will also make the distinction between deliberate and inadvertant doping. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/33 "2002-03-27T07:33:37Z")
That was interesting. If this is his first offense, why was the FIS even considering a 2 year suspension, which (from your quote) is quite clearly a second offense punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/34 "2002-03-27T07:39:26Z")
I agree with the decision, if they let people off if they claimed the banned substance was taken inadvertently or under mistaken assumptions then they wouldn’t be able to enforce the rules. How many times did this guy use the inhaler, anyway? I use one (Primatene, not Vicks) and it’s very obvious that they have a stimulant effect - one puff makes my heart race and I get a slight body rush, two puffs gives you a feeling not unlike certain controlled substances I’ve taken in the past (though it doesn’t last as long). ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/35 "2002-03-27T09:23:01Z")
Different medication. A quick (incomplete) search on Primatine indicates that it contains epinephrine. A quick search on that indicates that it may be similar to adrenaline (just as sabutamol/ventolin is). This would definitely be classed as performance enhancing, if only in stimulating the airways to dilate to maximum. So, what I’m saying is that it’s probable that Vicks and Primatine are chalk and cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/36 "2002-03-27T10:31:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ffmdavis \* > Thus no product for use in colds, flu or hay fever purchased by a > competitor or given to him/her should be used without first checking with a doctor or pharmacist that the product does not contain a drug of the banned stimulant class. > > * * * Isn’t this the whole point though - that he had already checked Vicks inhalers with his team doctor, but a difference in regional manufacture caught him out? Out of interest, shouldn’t the IOC at least test his sample to show if it was metamphetamine L. It’d be useful to know if his defence had any basis in truth. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/37 "2002-03-27T14:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bromley \* > \*\*That was interesting. If this is his first offense, why was the FIS even considering a 2 year suspension, which (from your quote) is quite clearly a second offense punishment? \*\* The 2 year suspension is the initial punishment for a deliberate doping offense. > [@](#): > > _From the [FIS Website](http://www.fis-ski.com/rulesandpublications/medicaldoping.html)_ > **FIS Sanction Catalogue** > 1 Deliberate doping > 1.1 Suspension from participation in all international ski competitions for 2 years > for the first offence. > 1.1.1 Suspension from participation in all international ski competitions for life-time > for the second offence. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bromley_ > A quick (incomplete) search on Primatine indicates that it contains epinephrine. A quick search on that indicates that it may be similar to adrenaline Epinephrine and adrenaline [are the same thing](http://www.egora.fr/Tox-In/TOXIANGL/ANTIDOTE/ADRNALIN.HTM) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Gary Kumquat_ > Isn’t this the whole point though - that he had already checked Vicks inhalers with his team doctor, but a difference in regional manufacture caught him out? I don’t know, the only mention of anything of the sort is in the Guardian article, which says he was using a team approved Sinex decongestant. If he’d been approved to use the UK form he’d have a stronger case for inadvertant doping, but I really doubt it will make any difference in terms of keeping his medal or avoiding any punishment. Lastly, amphetamines are banned as a class of drugs. It doesn’t matter whether he took L or D methamphetamine. They’re both banned. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/38 "2002-03-27T14:46:21Z")
my knowledge of drug testing may be a bit dates, but maybe some one else can answer this: the two drugs in question are chemically similar, right? My understanding is/was that while in it’s ‘pure’ form, testing can discern the difference between say “heroin” and “Codein”, but once it’s in some one’s system, it metabolizes to a chemically similar substance. (so, while running the correction center, if some one tested positive for morphine, we weren’t certain if it was codein or heroin, but frankly didn’t care). So, is it possible for the test to discern which of the substances was taken??? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/39 "2002-03-27T15:10:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ffmdavis \* > **I don’t know, the only mention of anything of the sort is in the Guardian article, which says he was using a team approved Sinex decongestant. If he’d been approved to use the UK form he’d have a stronger case for inadvertant doping, but I really doubt it will make any difference in terms of keeping his medal or avoiding any punishment.** [Here’s an article with his story about using US Vicks](http://news.bbc.co.uk/winterolympics2002/hi/english/alpine_skiing/newsid_1885000/1885843.stm). All references I’ve seen say that the UK version is approved, but the US one isn’t. That’s why I wouldn’t mind some form of test to at least see if his story is plausible. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540/40 "2002-03-27T15:51:23Z")
**Gary** I think that by all means they should do the test to differentiate the 2 types of methamphetamine. I don’t think he’ll get his medal back, but I also don’t think he should be hit with anything more than the FIS suspension for inadvertant doping. Baxter also has the right to an appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. I believe they could potentially restore his bronze medal, but I’m not sure how likely it is. On another note, for anyone more familiar with IOC rules, if he had listed the Vicks inhaler on his drug test form, would this even be an issue? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olympic-skier-loses-bronze-medal-due-to-otc-inhaler/99540.md?page=3)