# OMG, I never realized how bad Challange of the Superfriends was... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080 "2002-10-06T17:46:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/1 "2002-10-06T17:46:29Z")
I don’t have cable at home. As a result, I haven’t seen Challange of the Superfriends for, oh, about twenty years. I had all sorts of memories of liking the series (although there was one episode that freaked me out) and could look back upon the series with a fond nostalgic recollection. Until last Thursday night. Last Thursday night, I went over to my mother’s house to take care of some things (my mother is living with us, for now). Anyway, I turn on her TV (she has cable) and start flipping through the channels. All of a sudden, I’m getting a nostalgic rush. I see the Munsters, Gilligan’s Island, Batman (West/Ward), and other shows I haven’t seen in at least a decade. Then I find the _piece de’ resistance_… Challange of the Superfriends! And it was just starting… OK! We had a winner! Well, the episode featured a new device that the Toyman created, which could draw a person into a classic storybook. It just so happens that most of the Superfriends were off-planet at the moment at a Galactic Peace Conference or some Intersteller Olympics gathering. Three (Superman, Wonder Woman and Hawkman) were left behind to watch the planet. Now is the Legion’s time to strike. First Toyman draws Hawkman into the story of Jack and the Beanstalk. While in the story, Toyman takes the magic beans and throws them on the ground. Sure enough, a big beanstalk starts to grow, and the Toyman begins climbing it. Hawkman realizes that if he’s going to get out of the story, he’s going to have to catch Toyman. So he starts _climbing the beanstalk_ after Toyman. (Um, hello, did you forget about those wings you have…) Cheetah traps Wonder Woman in the story of Alice in Wonderland, with WW cast as Alice. It all goes fine for a few minutes until the catepillar and the Cheshire Cat begin tormenting poor Diana. Well, Diana decides she’s not going to put up with that, so she takes out her lasso and _throws it around the cat_ (Um, hello, did you forget that it’s a _Cheshire_ Cat and can disappear at will…) Brainiac, meanwhile, traps Superman in the story of Gulliver’s Travels, with Supes cast as Gulliver. Superman wakes up to find that he’s tied to the beach by _kryptonite ropes_ (um, hello, how did Kryptonite get into Lilliput?) Then when he breaks free (how did he do that? Shouldn’t the kryptonite ropes have sapped his strength?), the Lilliputians begin catapaulting kryptonite rocks at him (see above). Well, now Supes is really in bad shape. The kryptonite pebbles at his feet and that he’s being pelted with are too much for him to stand up. He’s got to get away from it, but how? He looks around and sees a castle gate. Perfect! He uses his _heat vision_ to _magnetize_ the gate, thus _attracting the kryptonite_ (is kryptonite attracted to magnets?) to the gate and away from Superman. Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice… … the Legion has taken over. But sure enough, some of the SF are on thier way back. Soon Batman, Robin, Black Lightning and one other (I think it was Green Lantern, but I forget) waltz in. A Legionaire pulls a lever and the floor opens underneath the SF. They fell into their own unescapable prison (you’d think if you found the enemy running the place, don’t stand over your own unescapable prison…) In any event, sure enough the SF _escape from the unescapable prison_ and save the day. I know my memory is failing me, but were all the COTSF that bad? While I don’t expect perfection from an old Saturday morning cartoon, at least the story should be somewhat plausable, no? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/2 "2002-10-06T18:24:36Z")
It would idea if you kept this in your mind next time you happen to watch the show: **It was not aimed at the 18-48 year old demographic.** **Ever.** It was aimed squarely at the 5-13 year old demographic. In other words, kids. Kids who could give a shit about whether or not something is plausible or who get upset (like you did) if things seem to be out of context or whether the entire story is plausible. Is it plausible that sound exists in outer space? If you watch Star Wars & Star Trek you would think it did. But it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/3 "2002-10-06T18:26:59Z")
Yeah, I know, I know, **WSLer**. But even so, I didn’t realize how utterly illogical it all was when I was a kid. Ah well, the innoncence of youth is gone… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![ForgottenLore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@ForgottenLore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForgottenLore)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/4 "2002-10-06T19:50:51Z")
I feel your pain, **zev.** I felt the same way about the animated _Hobbit_ movie. I loved it when it first came out in the early 80s. I was about 12 then. I just rented it for my kids a couple of months ago and, man, what a letdown. It wasn’t an awful movie, it just wasn’t _nearly_ as good as I remembered it. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/5 "2002-10-06T21:41:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > It was aimed squarely at the 5-13 year old demographic. Even when I was in the target demo, I still thought Superfriends was beneath me. Why must they always declare how they will use their powers, instead of simply doing it? The poor storytelling bothered me from the first, and it only gets worse with occaisionaly re-viewings. Why must cartoon writers insult the intelligence of the young audience? I must admit that “Challenge of the Superfriends” was an immense improvement over earlier versions, in terms of storytelling quality. For one thing, they attempted actual suspense, and I even saw something resembling science fiction (an episode about “liquid light” as an alternate energy source). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/6 "2002-10-06T22:07:29Z")
Contrasting the earlier _Superfriends_ with classic Bugs Bunny 'toons is telling: Bugs had a subtext which might be somewhat iconoclastic or sexual and would made the adults chuckle. There is no such subtlety in _Superfriends_; it’s geared exclusively to young children and to heck with any possible adult audience. As for complaining about heroes talking about how to use their powers before using them, it’s not nearly as bad as Fred Flinstone et al _reading every single sign out loud_, and sounding out the big words like a bunch of stone-age dunces. Barney: Hey, Fred! It says “Hos-pit-al this way.” I guess the hospital is over there. Well, _duh_. I realize some of the four- and five-year olds watching aren’t fully literate yet, but give the rest of us _some_ credit, willya? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/7 "2002-10-06T22:57:55Z")
Try the new _Justice League_ cartoon on Cartoon Network. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, and The Martian Manhunter in his first animated appearance. Much better scripts. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/8 "2002-10-07T00:58:32Z")
Eh, it’s all different kinds of fun. No great literary wonder… But the intro music was great. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/9 "2002-10-07T00:59:18Z")
This looks like a good place to mention [Seanbaby’s Superfriends page](http://www.seanbaby.com/super.htm), which I’d been rereading recently. I just love his assessment of [The Riddler](http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/riddler.htm): he’s actually _worse_ than useless, because not only does he have no special powers, he goes out of his way to give clues (in the form of riddles) to their enemies, the Superfriends. To quote the page: “Look out world. Here comes a guy as tough as a regular guy only easier to catch.” ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/10 "2002-10-07T01:11:16Z")
I know exactly where you’re coming from. I recently obtained a number of episodes of this show in digital form, from…sources we aren’t supposed to discuss here. Good Lord. When I was 7, this show was The Bomb. Coolest. Show. Ever. Now I literally can’t make myself watch it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/11 "2002-10-07T01:21:20Z")
I remember watching one episode of some _Superfriends_ incarnation where the moon turned out to actually be a giant egg that hatched some big Rodan-type monster. Even as a very young child, I was thinking “Dang that’s pretty stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/12 "2002-10-07T02:02:09Z")
**Bosda** beat me to it. Watch _Justice League_. You know that adult subtext **Bryan** mentioned? Try this: Flash (boasting about something he did): “_blah blah blah_…because I’m the Fastest Man Alive.” Hawkgirl: “Has it ever occurred to you that that might be why you can’t get a date?” I also liked the fact that the astronaut on the Mars mission in the first episode was named Carter (I think he was even referred to as “J. Carter”). Very nice homage there, and nicely subtle. The writers are doing good things with the show. Sure, they screw up sometimes, but not like the _Superfriends_ writers–I couldn’t take those scripts when I was a little kid. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/13 "2002-10-07T06:05:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weird\_AL\_Einstein \* > \*\*I know exactly where you’re coming from. I recently obtained a number of episodes of this show in digital form, from…sources we aren’t supposed to discuss here. Good Lord. When I was 7, this show was The Bomb. Coolest. Show. Ever. Now I literally can’t make myself watch it. \*\* …and it was only while watching **The Tigger Movie** a couple of years ago that I realized that all the characters in the 100 acre woods are all mentally deficient…this fact somehow escaped my notice for over two decades. :rolleyes: I can still watch the Christmas special without cringing, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/14 "2002-10-07T06:15:24Z")
Well, **Max Torque** beat me to it, but I was specifically going to mention seanbaby’s [_Super Friends_ drinking game](http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/drink.htm) (with reference to **TheeGrumpy** ’s comment “_Why must they always declare how they will use their powers_”). Re the OP: If Toyman could draw the stories however he liked, I think he could draw the Lilliputians with Kryptonite ropes and stuff if he wanted. Then again, if it was really that easy, he should have just made it so that the captive Super Friends were drawn into… another inescapable prison, or something. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/15 "2002-10-07T07:04:20Z")
Seanbaby’s page is great. My favorite is on Solomon Grundie and his midnight snacking habits. The line about “waking up with your teammate jamming a spoon into your ear” just makes me smile every time. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/16 "2002-10-07T14:03:06Z")
_Wizard_ Magazine ran a great parody a few years ago where the modern Justice League met their Superfriends counterparts. The absurdity of it all was, I think, best summed up by the SF Aquaman: “I shall remain motionless until water is introduced into the story!” ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/17 "2002-10-07T14:08:37Z")
Uh, guys…the reason that _Justice League_ is better than _Superfriends_ is because _JL_ is written for adults who will be watching it in its prime-time scheduling slot. It features violence, drama and even a little bit of character development from time to time. Villains on _Superfriends_ were just vandals in silly cosutumes who occassionally stole things, but mostly just wanted to make trouble (I recall one episode where the Joker freed all of the animals from the Gotham Zoo. That was his whole objective - letting animals out of the zoo for no particular purpose. And it took all of the Superfriends to get the animals back). After all, they couldn’t risk scaring the 5 year old audience on Saturday morning. Villains on _Justice League_ are dangerous criminals in silly costumes who are perfectly willing to kill in order to accomplish their goals - and sometimes those goals are just to kill. There have been on-screen deaths on _Justice League_. Oh, and _Justice League_ managed to make Aquaman a useful character who could do more than just breathe underwater and talk to fish. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/18 "2002-10-07T14:27:09Z")
_Superfriends vs. The Legion of Doom_ was and will always be the best fot he Superfriends series. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/19 "2002-10-07T16:32:56Z")
Excuse me, but Justice League is just as bad as Superfriends was. The start of the Aquaman episode, for example, has Superman and Wonderwoman being flown around by Green Lantern in a jet, Right off the bat, pick three things wrong with this scene (hint: all three can fly unaided in space faster than this vehical and Green Lantern could move anyone who couldn’t faster with his power ring and forget the jet). Then their jet/submarine is attacked by another submarine. Their response is for Green Lantern to just drive around and try to avoid it. No use of that “most powerful weapon in the universe” that could end the scene in a heart beat, no sending out the two incredibly powerful characters who could end it quickly, just trying evasive manuvers (not that they matter since if their sub got hit it couldn’t hurt any of them). And so on and so on and so on. Every episode I’ve had the misfortune to see has had similar things. The characters on Justice League are completely and totally incompetant on a level that’s as bad as it was in Superfriends and having them talk tougher doesn’t change the fact that the stories about them are still awful. And for those who think it’s more mature than Superfriends that Fury script could easily have been a holdover from the old show. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080/20 "2002-10-07T16:46:56Z")
Not having seen the episode in question, what’s wrong with GL giving Superman and WW a lift? Why not in a jet? Why, just because _you_ might have done things differently, does that mean the way things were done are **wrong?** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omg-i-never-realized-how-bad-challange-of-the-superfriends-was/131080.md?page=2)