# Omnibus Evil MFers in the news thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2023, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496 "2023-05-03T11:05:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 185
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3686 "2025-12-01T23:10:15Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Unfortunately he is not liable for war crimes as we are not – you know – at _war_. Tell that to Lt. Calley. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2025, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3687 "2025-12-01T23:20:58Z")
I’m sure the ICC (International Criminal Court) would oblige with an indictment. A country does not have to be at war for its military to commit a war crime, or for its leader to order them to do so. All the US would have to do would be to surrender him to their jurisdiction. I don’t expect to live to see that, but it’s a nice thought. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2025, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3688 "2025-12-01T23:41:27Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Unfortunately he is not liable for war crimes as we are not – you know – at _war_. That’s not what a “war crime” is though. You don’t have to be “at war”; it means that a crime has occurred as part of an armed conflict. That could be something occurring during a declared war, or use of military force outside of a declared war. [International law: Understanding justice in times of war](https://unric.org/en/international-law-understanding-justice-in-times-of-war/) > War crimes are **violations of international humanitarian law** (whose perpetrators incur **individual criminal responsibility** under international law). > > Consequently, unlike the crimes of genocide and crimes against humanity, **war crimes always take place in the context of an armed conflict, whether international or not.** > > War crimes include murder, torture, pillage, or intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population, humanitarian aid workers, religious and educational buildings and hospitals. The use of weapons not authorised by international conventions, such as chemical weapons or cluster munitions, can also be considered a war crime. > > Unlike genocide and crimes against humanity, war crimes can be perpetrated against a variety of victims, whether combatants or non-combatants, depending on the type of crime. Donald Trump has insisted that the military is taking up arms against invaders, and that justifies these killings, so he is declaring this to be an armed conflict, whether or not the people on the boat are shooting back. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3689 "2025-12-02T00:03:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Hegseth, as a retired military person, **can** face a court martial. I believe Hegseth is _ **not** _ a retiree, but just straight resigned his National Guard commission. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3690 "2025-12-02T00:15:44Z")
FYI, the [Washington Post reported](https://wapo.st/4pFz3Rs) that Hegseth denied ordering killing everyone aboard that boat in September. I get the impression that they realize they’re in trouble over this, with even Republicans recognizing it’s a bridge too far. > President Donald Trump said Sunday that he has “great confidence” that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth did not give a spoken order to kill all crew members aboard a vessel suspected of smuggling drugs in the Caribbean Sea in September. > > Trump said Hegseth told him “he did not say that, and I believe him, 100 percent.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3691 "2025-12-02T00:16:12Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I believe Hegseth is _ **not** _ a retiree, but just straight resigned his National Guard commission. True, he resigned because he claimed he was being discriminated against because of his religious and political views (HA!) and at that point the Guard was fed up with him and glad to be rid of him. At least that’s what I’ve gathered. So he didn’t retire, but he was discharged, and as a former member of the military is subject to the same rules as any other former service member. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3692 "2025-12-02T01:22:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > True, he resigned because he claimed he was being discriminated against because of his religious and political views In particular, because he had a _Deus Vult_ tattoo, from the Latin for “God wills it”, which was originally a saying from the Crusades but has been co-opted by the modern Christian nationalist movement. > [@Atamasama](#): > > So he didn’t retire, but he was discharged, and as a former member of the military is subject to the same rules as any other former service member. I think that retirement is slightly different from other kinds of separation, in that retired servicemembers are subject to recall back to active duty in a way that those who separated other than by retirement are not. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3693 "2025-12-02T02:56:52Z")
Hogsbreath denies giving the order in one moment, then tweets out a [twisted parody cartoon of a children’s book character in a helicopter blowing up boats with a bazooka](https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-pete-posts-twisted-parody-of-beloved-kids-character-in-shock-strike/). If that’s realizing he’s in trouble, I’m the Czar of all the Russias! Some have commented on social media that firing a rocket inside a helicopter like that would destroy the helicopter, a perfect illustration of Hegseth elevating what looks cool or macho over what’s actually militarily useful. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3694 "2025-12-02T03:40:30Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Hogsbreath denies giving the order in one moment, then tweets out a [twisted parody cartoon of a children’s book character in a helicopter blowing up boats with a bazooka](https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-pete-posts-twisted-parody-of-beloved-kids-character-in-shock-strike/). The creators of Franklin the Turtle say “please stop using our intellectual property to glorify war crimes”, which is not a thought I think they ever expected to have to express. [![](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:xy5kxsm3mllicxckb3i7uabr/bafkreibmpi2egur2fflaiun23wnrnmpyzyzsoschr4sujezps3o2k6t7ei@jpeg) ](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:xy5kxsm3mllicxckb3i7uabr/bafkreibmpi2egur2fflaiun23wnrnmpyzyzsoschr4sujezps3o2k6t7ei@jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3695 "2025-12-02T04:29:57Z")
> **[The Washington Post (@washingtonpost.com)](https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3m6xtc4l2cs2s)** > > Breaking news: Government officials said they are increasingly concerned that the Trump administration intends to scapegoat the military officer who directed U.S. forces to kill survivors of a targeted strike on suspected drug smugglers in Latin... And this is why you don’t follow illegal orders, kids - this administration will order you to break the law and then blame you for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3696 "2025-12-02T04:56:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And this is why you don’t follow illegal orders, kids They were warned. They were given an explanation. Nevertheless, they persisted. “Just following orders”, as a defense to behavior under the trump regime, has a nice historical echo. I hope they get convicted, even if the higher ups skate. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3697 "2025-12-02T05:12:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tell that to Lt. Calley. > Due to Article 4 of the [Fourth Geneva Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention) excluding allied civilians from the status of [protected persons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_persons) in an international armed conflict, Calley and his fellow soldiers could not be legally tried as [war criminals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime).[[14]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-14)[[15]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-15)[[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-GjgD-16) Calley was instead charged on September 5, 1969, with six specifications of [premeditated murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Degrees_of_murder) under Article 118 of the [Uniform Code of Military Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice) (UCMJ) > In a recollection on the Vietnam War, [South Korea’s Vietnam Expeditionary Forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea_in_the_Vietnam_War) commander [Chae Myung-shin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chae_Myung-shin) stated that “Calley tried to get revenge for the deaths of his troops. In a war, this is natural.”[[38]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-nw20000410-38) Conversely, U.S. Army Colonel [Harry G. Summers Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_G._Summers_Jr.) declared that Calley and Medina should have been hanged, drawn, and quartered, with their remains placed “at the gates of Fort Benning, at the Infantry School, as a reminder to those who pass under it of what an infantry officer ought to be.”[[39]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-39)[[40]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-40) [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#Murder_trial). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3698 "2025-12-02T05:14:55Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Calley and his fellow soldiers could not be legally tried as [war criminals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime).[[14]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-14)[[15]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-15)[[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#cite_note-GjgD-16) Calley was instead charged on September 5, 1969, with six specifications of [premeditated murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Degrees_of_murder) under Article 118 of the [Uniform Code of Military Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice) (UCMJ) Six of one, half a dozen of the other. “War crimes” isn’t a specific statute one can be tried for violating, and the fact that the US wasn’t in a state of war didn’t protect him. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3699 "2025-12-02T05:17:59Z")
I could get behind summary execution – same as he ordered – and carve _Deus Vult_ on his gravestone. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3700 "2025-12-02T05:20:43Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > Trump said Hegseth told him “he did not say that, and I believe him, 100 percent.” Proof positive that Hegseth _did_ say it. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3701 "2025-12-02T10:44:40Z")
[A Utah father](https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/northern-utah/utah-father-who-went-missing-with-3-children-on-hike-charged-with-child-torture-abuse) took his three children, age 8, 4 and 2 hiking up a mountain in Big Cotton Canyon, > A Utah father who went missing overnight last month with his three children in Big Cottonwood Canyon has been charged with multiple counts of child torture and aggravated child abuse. > > The indictment accuses Micah Smith of being “selfish” and formally charges him with 3 counts of child torture and three counts of aggravated child abuse. He is currently being held without bail. > > “What seemed like an innocent hike with his three children quickly turned into a nightmare when the defendant chose to summit a mountain over the safety of the kids,” the indictment read. > > On Saturday, Oct. 11, Smith and his three children, ages 2, 4, and 8, went hiking in the Broads Fork Trail, and were later reported missing by family after the group failed to return and troubling text messages between Smith and his wife. > > "Not an easy hike that you would take a child upon,” said Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill. The children required CPR multiple times: > Two hours later, Smith told investigators that his 2-year-old son became unconscious and stopped breathing, and that he attempted CPR on the child until he was breathing on his own. > > While taking shelter during the night, Smith said the 4-year-old boy started to become very cold and had difficulty breathing, but began breathing on their own again after CPR, but was still not coherent. > > Smith alleged that at that point, he taught the oldest daughter how to do CPR and started going back down the mountain alone. And it doesn’t end with the hike. > On Nov. 10, weeks after he and his children went missing on their hike, Smith was found accused of trespassing at Primary Children’s Hospital and interfering with his 4-year-old son’s medical care and tampering with equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3702 "2025-12-02T11:14:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [@washingtonpost.com on Bluesky](https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3m6xtc4l2cs2s) > > And this is why you don’t follow illegal orders, kids - this administration will order you to break the law and then blame you for doing so. The New York Times [reports](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/01/us/hegseth-drug-boat-strike-order-venezuela.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5k8.j-Hn.KlssVOPaGKeX&smid=url-share) that Hegseth ordered Adm. Frank M. Bradley “to conduct these kinetic strikes” but the order didn’t address what was to happen if there were survivors of that strike on the boat. It sounds to me that they are pinning the blame on Adm Bradley. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3703 "2025-12-02T13:15:33Z")
I think it depends on this: were the orders to sink the boats, or were they to kill the people on the boats? Those are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3704 "2025-12-02T13:31:22Z")
So this woman is a sick individual. This is evil. Proudly evil. > ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496/3705 "2025-12-02T13:34:29Z")
To be fair, Admiral Bradley should be held accountable for following this illegal order. So should the troops under him who carried it out. And so should the Secretary of Defense and President who ordered him. And yes, it is natural, in war, to want to take revenge for your fallen friends. Natural does not mean good. The fact that atrocities are natural in war is yet another reason why one should strive to avoid war whenever possible, and why, if you absolutely must go to war, soldiers should be trained extensively on resisting what’s “natural”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496.md?page=184) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-evil-mfers-in-the-news-thread/983496.md?page=186)