# Omnibus Stupid MFers in the news thread (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657 "2024-01-05T16:15:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/201 "2024-02-02T15:48:45Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > I don’t think seeing a penis in a kid’s book is a big deal, Moms for Liberty. Quite clearly she is sexualizing children, maybe even grooming them? Could there be a better trigger for their innate curiosity than, “Don’t ever touch or even look at that.” ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/202 "2024-02-02T15:49:58Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > > [@tofor](#): > > > > It purely gratuitous > > I mean, really. This is nonsense. What is the reason to put naked children in children’s books? ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/203 "2024-02-02T15:50:30Z")
Have you heard of the concept of “art”? ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/204 "2024-02-02T15:52:27Z")
Have you heard the concept of “children”? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/205 "2024-02-02T15:54:48Z")
I bet all those children are naked under their clothes 'cause that’s the kind of perverts these children’s books writers/illustrators are! ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/206 "2024-02-02T15:55:51Z")
Yes, I’ve heard of art, and children both. So? ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/207 "2024-02-02T15:57:01Z")
I’d guess that half the children reading the book will have a penis of their own and a lot of the rest will have brothers. No need for explanations. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/208 "2024-02-02T16:08:11Z")
It is kind of hard to express this in simple terms. I’ll list some exceptions below, but in general: There is nothing wrong with being naked. There is nothing wrong with a child being naked. There is nothing wrong with an adult who is the parent of the child being naked together. (My ex-wife was naked in numerous cases while she breast-fed my children) I tended to be dressed when I bathed and fed my kids, but there is a fair chance I responded to an emergency naked myself to a child who was naked. I don’t get your intolerance. Nakedness is how we come into this world. It is a normal thing. I am not a nudist, I just don’t care about nudity. it is our default state. I do, however, suspect you @tofor have never had children. Maybe when you do you will change your mind. BUT: this is a massive diversion from the topic, so I will bow out. Take that as a win, until you get an actual baby in your household. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/209 "2024-02-02T16:32:27Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > i wonder how many “Moms” there are in Moms for Liberty? Certainly not many with experience with parenting young boys. Unfortunately I imagine many of them are parents, just not good parents. When confronted with the situation you described their reaction would be to severely punish the child and instill in them the understanding that those parts of their bodies are bad and shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/210 "2024-02-02T16:35:13Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > > [@scudsucker](#): > > > > > [@tofor](#): > > > > > > It purely gratuitous > > > > I mean, really. This is nonsense. > > What is the reason to put naked children in children’s books? Because children are often naked. Have you ever actually read the book? That and Hector Protector were two of my favorite books when I was little. There is nothing sexual about it at all. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/211 "2024-02-02T16:58:01Z")
There are many thousands of options for a school library to choose from. If the parents prefer they choose another book over this book that’s no big deal at all. Please understand there is no ‘banning’ of books going on here. The only question is what books should be in a school library. > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Because children are often naked. Children also often poop on the floor (yes, I have had children). That doesn’t mean a book that shows children pooping on the floor as normal is useful, or that there’s a positive reason it should be in a school library. > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Have you ever actually read the book? I don’t remember seeing it before this conversation, but I looked it up. It appears to be a pretty bog standard mediocre children’s book except the main character is frequently naked. Like I said, it’s gratuitous. I probably have dozens of books on my shelves that would do just as well in the library. > [@DesertDog](#): > > Quite clearly she is sexualizing children, maybe even grooming them? Could there be a better trigger for their innate curiosity than, “Don’t ever touch or even look at that.” She’s not the one arguing that showing children pictures of naked children is so important those pictures need to be in a school library. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/212 "2024-02-02T17:05:40Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Like I said, it’s gratuitous In what way? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/213 "2024-02-02T17:19:54Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > There are many thousands of options for a school library to choose from. If the parents prefer they choose another book over this book that’s no big deal at all. Please understand there is no ‘banning’ of books going on here. The only question is what books should be in a school library. > > > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > > > Have you ever actually read the book? > > I don’t remember seeing it before this conversation, but I looked it up. It appears to be a pretty bog standard mediocre children’s book except the main character is frequently naked. Like I said, it’s gratuitous. I probably have dozens of books on my shelves that would do just as well in the library. For two, maybe three pages. Hardly “frequently.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/214 "2024-02-02T17:24:33Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > I don’t remember seeing it before this conversation, but I looked it up. It appears to be a pretty bog standard mediocre children’s book except the main character is frequently naked. Like I said, it’s gratuitous. I probably have dozens of books on my shelves that would do just as well in the library. Mediocre? It’s by Maurice Sendak and has won [many awards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Night_Kitchen#Awards_received). ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/215 "2024-02-02T17:30:09Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Please understand there is no ‘banning’ of books going on here. No. Just vandalism, defacing, censorship. I wonder what lesson is being taught here? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/216 "2024-02-02T17:52:39Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > What is the reason to put naked children in children’s books? What is the reason not to? Little kids like to go naked. This is entirely normal. The boys already know that penises exist. If the girls don’t, they’re going to find out eventually; what better context to do so than the context of ‘little kids sometimes run around naked’? Or is the intention to have it be a surprise on their wedding nights? (In this century, that’s not going to happen anyway unless the kid’s kept shut in a basement until then. And maybe not then if somebody sneaks her a phone.) > [@tofor](#): > > There are many thousands of options for a school library to choose from. If the parents prefer they choose another book over this book that’s no big deal at all. The parents are free to tell their children to choose another book. They are not free to tell everybody else’s parents that their children can’t have access to that book. And there are, unfortunately, many children who don’t have other access to books. > [@tofor](#): > > She’s not the one arguing that showing children pictures of naked children is so important those pictures need to be in a school library. It is very important to teach children that bodies are normal. Attempting to keep their bodies a shameful secret causes all sorts of problems. And a parent who is unable to discuss with their five-year-old the mere existence of a penis is IMO a pretty badly screwed up parent. What will they do when their child sees a male dog? The boy is dreaming in the book. He’s not being shown naked while awake at school. Any child too young to understand that it’s fine to be naked in the bathtub or in one’s dreams but not at the grocery store or in the classroom is too young to be going to school. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/217 "2024-02-02T17:55:05Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Please understand there is no ‘banning’ of books going on here. That might be what Moms for Liberty says, but… > **[What's behind the national surge in book bans? A low-tech website tied to...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2023/10/05/website-driving-banned-books-surge-moms-for-liberty/70922213007/)** > > The site has become the go-to resource for anyone seeking to ban books, according to experts and a USA TODAY analysis of book-ban attempts nationwide. > The site launched in 2022 to showcase a book-rating system that has also been used by right-wing political activist group Moms for Liberty. It bills itself as a resource for parents and claims not to be pushing political action: ”We do **not** support ‘banning’ books,” the site says. > > In less than two years, BookLooks has become the go-to resource for anyone seeking to ban books – especially books about gay people or sexuality – from school and public libraries, according to researchers, library experts and a USA TODAY analysis of book-ban attempts nationwide. ---
**Author:** ![Dogginit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogginit/32/16920_2.png) [@Dogginit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogginit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/218 "2024-02-02T18:02:56Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Moms for Liberty Not really sure how they can call themselves this and maintain a straight face. They’re for anything but liberty 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/219 "2024-02-02T18:05:19Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > The parents are free to tell their children to choose another book. They are not free to tell everybody else’s parents that their children can’t have access to that book. And there are, unfortunately, many children who don’t have other access to books. Mom’s for Liberty is promoting book bans. I wonder if the time is now to enact an anti-cog-dis law: if the name of your business or organization does not seem to comport with your actions, you may be called on to explain the discrepancy or dissolve if you cannot. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657/220 "2024-02-02T18:06:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > The parents are free to tell their children to choose another book. That’s not how school libraries work. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > They are not free to tell everybody else’s parents that their children can’t have access to that book. They are not telling anybody that. They are only asking for it to not be available in the school library. That isn’t even remotely the same thing. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And a parent who is unable to discuss with their five-year-old the mere existence of a penis is IMO a pretty badly screwed up parent. Again, the original complaint as quoted here was > [@eschereal](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > [t]he parent wouldn’t be able to discuss this with the child.” (to be clear, that’s eschereal quoting the article quoting the parent in question) So this mother doesn’t want the subject to come up _when she is not there to discuss it_. That’s literally the opposite of what you said. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > That might be what Moms for Liberty says, but… Libraries use all kinds of criteria on what books to include in their collection. Choosing not to include a book in a library collection is a “book ban” in the same sense that requiring background checks to buy a firearm is a “gun ban”. That is to say, not at all. Nobody is advocating that anybody be punished for having this book. Nobody is advocating that it not be published or sold. It’s literally not a ban. They’re not even saying children shouldn’t be allowed to _bring_ this book to school. That sort of thing isn’t even on the table. > [@eschereal](#): > > Mom’s for Liberty is promoting book bans. No they are not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-stupid-mfers-in-the-news-thread-part-2/995657.md?page=12)