# Omnibus Super Bowl XLVI Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 23, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425 "2012-01-23T19:51:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/121 "2012-02-06T03:46:44Z")
Yeah, that sounds right. This was also the first year in a decade or more that the NFC had a winning record over the AFC. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/122 "2012-02-06T03:49:18Z")
David, true, but Brady has had three game winning Super Bowl drives and let’s not forget Ben’s incredible 80+ yard drive to win Super Bowl XLIII, with the best throw and catch in Super Bowl history (in my opinion anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/123 "2012-02-06T03:50:11Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Brady has never had to do this in a Super Bowl. He’s always just needed a field goal. Well technically he did in 2007, yes? The problem is that Eli did it back to him! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/124 "2012-02-06T03:58:19Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > David, true, but Brady has had three game winning Super Bowl drives and let’s not forget Ben’s incredible 80+ yard drive to win Super Bowl XLIII, with the best throw and catch in Super Bowl history (in my opinion anyway). They were only down by 3 on their final scoring drive, so a lot of the pressure was removed by the fact that a field goal was useful. That game-winning touchdown pass (which was spectacular) was a 6-yard pass, so again, they were in easy chip-shot FG range to tie the game when they snapped the ball. Not quite as much pressure. > [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Well technically he did in 2007, yes? The problem is that Eli did it back to him! That drive started with like 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter, and also they were only down by 3 so it was less pressure with the FG option in play. The Giants got the ball back with like 2:43 (from memory, may be off) left in the game down by 4 so a FG wouldn’t help. Exponentially more pressure. EDIT: You’re both talking about **david** ’s point, where having the FG option is irrelevant. Ignore my rebuttals. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/125 "2012-02-06T04:00:11Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > David, true, but Brady has had three game winning Super Bowl drives and let’s not forget Ben’s incredible 80+ yard drive to win Super Bowl XLIII, with the best throw and catch in Super Bowl history (in my opinion anyway). Oh, of course. They’ve all proven their greatness, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/126 "2012-02-06T04:03:24Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > They were only down by 3 on their final scoring drive, so a lot of the pressure was removed by the fact that a field goal was useful. That game-winning touchdown pass (which was spectacular) was a 6-yard pass, so again, they were in easy chip-shot FG range to tie the game when they snapped the ball. Not quite as much pressure. The point is, it’s pretty hard to paint those guys as chokers. They’ve all been clutch, especially Roethlisberger and Brady. Remember, they’ve had more tries at this too. Ben won his first two and Brady his first three…now Eli his first two. Eli’s been awesome this postseason, though…no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/127 "2012-02-06T04:06:19Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > The point is, it’s pretty hard to paint those guys as chokers. They’ve all been clutch, especially Roethlisberger and Brady. Remember, they’ve had more tries at this too. Ben won his first two and Brady his first three…now Eli his first two. Eli’s been awesome this postseason, though…no doubt. Oh, no, I wasn’t trying to take away anything from those guys. (Though I can’t in good conscience give Ben credit for his first ring; he flat-out sucked that game.) They’re clearly elite. Was just pointing out that when it comes to their pressure-packed game-winning drives, some of that pressure was alleviated by having the FG option still in play. Except for Brady tonight, of course, but in fairness I think Brady played well enough in that final drive to get a win. His receivers, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/128 "2012-02-06T04:10:49Z")
Yeah, Ben did suck in XL, but he did make a bunch of really key plays down the stretch to secure the victory (though Randle El to Ward was the play of the game, of course). I don’t really recall the game last year. I’ve blocked it out. I wish that were hyperbole, but I honestly remember almost nothing of the actual game. I only remember being pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/129 "2012-02-06T04:23:25Z")
Heh, looks like I mostly did too. For some reason I remember it as the Packers dominating, but it was pretty darn close: Steelers get the ball on their own 13 with 2:07 left to play, down by 6. They come out with a 15 yard completion, 5 yard completion, incomplete, incomplete, incomplete, turnover on downs. Game over. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/130 "2012-02-06T04:35:48Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > **The Giants are the worst team to ever win it, that’s for sure.** They didn’t deserve to be anywhere near this game. I can live with that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/131 "2012-02-06T04:44:09Z")
What was the line, Pats -3? Yet everyone I know was more than eager to take the Giants. The Giants looked impressive all playoffs. Not just the d-line, their offense was very productive. I don’t think they were the “worst” SB winner by any means. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/132 "2012-02-06T05:06:08Z")
Congratulations to the New York Football Giants on winning Super Bowl XLVI. One question, though: When the hell is the media going to stop asking Eli about Peyton every chance they get? At this point, Eli’s proven to be at least as good, if not _better_ than Peyton. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/133 "2012-02-06T05:08:31Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > I can live with that. 🙂 They defeated #1 Green Bay Packers and #2 San Francisco 49ers, two teams pretty much everyone agreed at least one of which was going to be in the Super Bowl. How much more does a team need to prove itself? The loss to the Redskins means nothing, just like the Packers’ loss to Kansas City means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/134 "2012-02-06T05:26:02Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > They defeated #1 Green Bay Packers and #2 San Francisco 49ers, two teams pretty much everyone agreed at least one of which was going to be in the Super Bowl. How much more does a team need to prove itself? > > The loss to the Redskins means nothing, just like the Packers’ loss to Kansas City means nothing. Oh, I agree. But, haters gonna hate. But I don’t care what people think, because we have the trophy. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/135 "2012-02-06T05:35:16Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > The Giants are the worst team to ever win it, that’s for sure. They didn’t deserve to be anywhere near this game. Thank you – your pathetic load of butthurt bullshit makes this win (which _some_ of us saw coming two months ago) extra-sweet. Even sweeter is that they won this title by romping past the two teams that whiners [like you](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14641431&postcount=45) saw making it to the dance. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/136 "2012-02-06T05:38:03Z")
The Giant were the luckiest opponents of teams that beat themselves and you know it. Enjoy being Giants fans. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/137 "2012-02-06T05:45:52Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > The Giant were the luckiest opponents of teams that beat themselves and you know it. Enjoy being Giants fans. Why can’t you just man up and admit your team got beat fair and square? ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/138 "2012-02-06T05:56:59Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > The Giant were the luckiest opponents of teams that beat themselves and you know it. Enjoy being Giants fans. The Giants were no more or less lucky than the 49ers were to beat the Saints or the Patriots were to beat the Ravens. When you play close games, one mistake can make the difference. To avoid that, just win by a lot. Maybe the Packers and Saints were the two “best” teams this year (as I thought before the playoffs). Maybe not. But the Giants are for sure the best team in the last 6 games. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/139 "2012-02-06T05:57:13Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > At this point, Eli’s proven to be at least as good, if not _better_ than Peyton. I don’t know that that’s true. Without a doubt, the Giants are a better overall team than the Colts. And it’s certainly true that Eli has developed very well and can stand up there with Peyton. But in terms of individual performance, not team effort like SB victories, I still think Peyton’s peak has been higher than Eli’s. Of course, we can only really judge that once both their careers are done. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425/140 "2012-02-06T06:37:01Z")
\*\*\* _‘Giants probably were not the best team in the NFL this season…’_ I think it depends. Certainly they were nowhere near the best team over the course of the regular season, and even averaging together the quality of play over their entire 20-game season wouldn’t get them in the conversation. But then there’s their schizophrenic nature: 14 weeks of mediocre football, then 6 weeks of elite play. So, were the Giants actually an average-ish team that got bizarrely, freakishly hot at the end? Or were they an elite-caliber team that got off to an extended, bizarrely slow start? Then there are some hybrid answers one could give, but I actually think the latter option is not implausible given that a very similarly constructed Giants team did almost this exact same thing 4 years ago (then continued their elite play as soon as the next season began). This is a long way of saying that, if you think that the “real” New York Giants were the team from the final 1/3 of the season instead of the team from the first 2/3, then there’s a very real chance that New York really \*was \*the best team in the NFL this season, as weird as that is to type. \*\*\* _‘Giants won the Super Bowl, that makes them the best team’…_ We’ve probably had this argument before, but: Nah. They won the Super Bowl, that makes them the Champion. It only makes them the best team if we posit that a good team can never lose a game to a less good team. But that’s ok, because being Champion is enough. \*\*\* Very surprising that the Giants were able to win on a night when their pass rush did nearly nothing for almost the entire game. \*\*\* Perhaps related to the above, it was clear that the defenses were completely dedicated to keeping the play in front of them. Both QBs were allowed to reel off long strings of consecutive, short completions, but there were no truly big plays all night. The longest play was for 38 yards. Beyond that there were gains of 24, 21, and 20 yards. Everything else was under 20 yards – 133 offensive plays from scrimmage, four went for more than 20 yards, and one went for more than 25 yards. Those are unusually low numbers for any game, let alone a game featuring two high-powered passing offenses and two apparently suspect defenses. I’d love to have the all-22 coach’s film for this game to see exactly what the defensive schemes were. \*\*\* There were a few drops from Brady’s receivers, more than one would typically expect from them in a given game. Nonetheless, I don’t think it was a particularly remarkable level of dropitude. A couple of the drops were somewhat off-target throws that would have been \*very \*difficult to convert, the one deep across the middle on the last drive (to Ochcinco? I forget) was actually tipped, can’t fault him there. Meanwhile, of course, the Giants had a somewhat lower than typical number of drops. \*\*\* Re: the Patriots allowing NY to score a touchdown at the end. I realized that allowing the TD was the correct strategy about 2 seconds prior to the snap, and when Bradshaw accidentally fell into the endzone on the play I literally fell off the couch and crumpled to a heap on the ground. Just thought I’d mention it. \*\*\* Brady missed a few throws, but still had a pretty good game all things considered. I can only think of one pass that Eli flat-out missed. Probably fair to say that Eli legitimately outplayed Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. In a vacuum, stripping everything else away, that alone is pretty significant accomplishment. \*\*\* _New York Giants Luck Watch_ There were the above NE drops. They fumbled twice and were fortunate to recover both (losing either one would have been devastating). Rob Gronkowski, the Patriots second most important offensive player, was injured and was nowhere near 100% – only had the two catches, and his inability to leap may have led to Brady’s interception. \*\*\* _Unsung Heroes Watch_ – Lawrence Tynes. Up until the end of the 4th Quarter, Tynes and Gostowski had combined for one touchback in 7 tries, but in his last two attempts Tynes drilled his kickoffs and forced the Pats to take a knee. The last kickoff, of course, was especially vital, as a good return could have completely changed the complexion of New England’s last chance drive – instead of trying to get in position for a decent Hail Mary, they might have been trying to get in position to throw 3 passes from inside the red zone. – Whoever drilled the Giants’ defense on wrapping up. They were extremely solid on their tackles. Giants defenders weren’t always in position to make a timely play, but when defender met ball-carrier, the play ended promptly on almost every occasion. – Add your own? \*\*\* _Officiating Watch_ I thought the game was pretty well officiated. Now, I’m not one for complaining about the refs, and maybe I missed a couple bad calls going the other way, but I did think that the officials missed two calls (in the Patriots’ favor) that had the potential to be hugely important. There was the holding call in the 1st half on a good run up the middle: possibly correct according to the letter of the law, but barely more than what happens on nearly every snap, and very ticky-tacky given that this was a game when the refs seemed to be purposefully keeping the flags in their pockets whenever possible. Second, of course, was the pass interference non-call on 3rd down late in the 2nd half. It was a close enough play to be non-ridiculous given the aforementioned laissez-faire officiating approach, but I still think the defender got there early enough to warrant a flag. Still, there was nothing egregious, they got a couple of very difficult calls correct without needing replay, and overall I truly appreciate that they didn’t turn the game into a flag-fest. Huzzah to John Parry and crew! \*\*\* _Legacy Watch_ Tom Brady: Unchanged. Mainly this represents a missed chance to fortify his position as a Montana/Unitas type. I guess if you want to be really pessimistic, you could spin this as changing Brady’s legacy from someone who’s incredibly clutch and always comes through in the biggest games to someone who happened to play 5 extremely close Super Bowls, and won about half of them, just as one should expect, probabilistically. Eli Manning: Hard to say. This doesn’t make him Canton-bound by a damn sight, but it does at least put him within shooting distance. If he wins one more championship, Super Bowl MVP or no, it’s probably impossible to keep him out. If he never wins another one but does more or less repeat this season’s level of play for three more seasons (possibly two at the low end), then his '07 and '11 \*postseasons \*probably elevate him from "hey, you’re a Steve McNair This game, coming on the heals of this postseason, coming on the heals of this regular season, I think leapfrogs him past Rivers among the QB class of '04 (barely, for now, this could easily change). And at least now if someone says “Manning \> Roethlisberger,” it’s inappropriate to respond with “LOL what??? HAHAHAHAHA!” Tom Coughlin: Again, not Canton-bound, but if he wins a third we’ll have to have some very serious discussions about it in 8 years or so. Even now someone could make a really interesting case for him given his (unprecedented?) success with the Jacksonville expansion franchise. Anyway, Tom Coughlin is an excellent head coach, and the main effect of tonight’s game is that, from now until the day he retires, he will have to be mentioned along with Belichick and whoever happens to be hot at the moment whenever someone asks about the best active head coaches. All around this was a wonderful Super Bowl. First of all it goes without saying that New England is a very good team and a great franchise, and should be proud of their game and their season. I thought they played with a lot of heart and a lot of class tonight. Now, as a Giants fan, the first 26 or so minutes were euphoric; it felt like the Giants were just the better team and would coast to the championship. Then the next 30 minutes was horrifying; it felt like the Patriots had the game completely in hand despite never being up by more than one score. Then that last Eli drive … and he’s so good at those … and Coughlin is so good about not settling for go-ahead field goals when there’s time to score a touchdown … and I was just so dame proud of both of them … and [tears up…] Sorry. Talk amongst yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-super-bowl-xlvi-thread/610425.md?page=8)