# Omnibus Trolls R Us Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489 "2016-05-23T21:38:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 166
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3301 "2017-08-14T13:29:26Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Except that slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy. I.e. they are not valid arguments (n.b. when there is strong evidence for a chain of events it is no longer a slippery slope argument). Forbidding certain speech isn’t necessarily dangerous. A community, whether it is a nation or a message board, can come together and say no to some speech, without that causing a floodgate of other types of speech being banned. I don’t see any compelling reason to alter the constitution’s definition of protected speech, but I’ve at least seen arguments in other threads that such a law, judiciously applied, would focus on prohibiting specific behaviors and types of speech vs. any specific ideological group. While I don’t love the idea, I don’t think a slippery slope into utter tyranny would necessarily be the outcome. The U.S. has very liberal free speech allowances compared to many developed countries who seem to do just fine. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3302 "2017-08-14T15:33:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I wonder what the overlap is between people who yap about shifting the so-called Overton window and those who hand wave away concerns about so-called slippery slopes. I wonder what the overlap is between constitutional absolutists and paranoid lunatics incapable of coherent thought who reject the regulation of anything because they suffer from a delusional distrust of government. It’s not “hand waving” to show that in real experience in the real world, appropriately limited and necessary regulation is not a “slippery slope”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3303 "2017-08-14T17:08:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I wonder what the overlap is between constitutional absolutists and paranoid lunatics incapable of coherent thought who reject the regulation of anything because they suffer from a delusional distrust of government. How much do you trust the current US government? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3304 "2017-08-14T17:48:30Z")
Obvious troll is obvious: > [@Should More Murder Suspects Die During Arrests](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-more-murder-suspects-die-during-arrests/793310/45): > > I absolutely was. I formed a Facebook group called “liberal Democrats for Ted Cruz.” ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3305 "2017-08-14T17:53:10Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > But hate speech is prohibited on the Straight Dope. What is endorsing Nazis other than hate speech? As I understand it, hate speech has to be directly expressed hatred against one or more groups (subject to interpretation by mods, of course). Endorsing Nazis is hateful, but it is not a directly expressed hatred of one or more groups. It is endorsement of that hatred but only somewhat indirectly. It’s a fine point and what many might call a distinction without a difference. I don’t personally think it’s a bad thing if “endorsing Nazis” were included under the board rules about hate speech. If that is done, it should be clear (for future reference) that it represents a small but possibly significant extension of the ban against hate speech. I shoulda been a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3306 "2017-08-14T18:48:14Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > As I understand it, hate speech has to be directly expressed hatred against one or more groups (subject to interpretation by mods, of course). Endorsing Nazis is hateful, but it is not a directly expressed hatred of one or more groups. It is endorsement of that hatred but only somewhat indirectly. > > It’s a fine point and what many might call a distinction without a difference. I don’t personally think it’s a bad thing if “endorsing Nazis” were included under the board rules about hate speech. If that is done, it should be clear (for future reference) that it represents a small but possibly significant extension of the ban against hate speech. > > I shoulda been a lawyer. So, why was **handsomeharry** banned? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3307 "2017-08-14T19:54:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, why was **handsomeharry** banned? Turns out he was not so handsome. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3308 "2017-08-14T20:00:10Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, why was **handsomeharry** banned? I think it was the difference between endorsing Nazis and being a Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3309 "2017-08-14T20:16:00Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I wonder what the overlap is between constitutional absolutists and paranoid lunatics incapable of coherent thought who reject the regulation of anything because they suffer from a delusional distrust of government. > > It’s not “hand waving” to show that in real experience in the real world, appropriately limited and necessary regulation is not a “slippery slope”. Strawman alert! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3310 "2017-08-14T20:26:54Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, why was **handsomeharry** banned? He was banned for trolling, not for being a Nazi or endorsing them. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3311 "2017-08-14T22:59:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How much do you trust the current US government? 😉 How much do you trust neo-Nazis? If there’s one thing we should understand from history, it’s that there is no substitute for an informed and engaged electorate that demands good government, and no protection against a stupid or apathetic one that elects or allows to be elected a dysfunctional or evil government. > [@octopus](#): > > Strawman alert! No, it was absolutely on point. No matter how you slice it, dice it, or handwave at it, intransigent absolutism about “rights” instead of a measured assessment of its relationship to the public interest always stems from a basic distrust of whatever institution it is intended to control. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3312 "2017-08-14T23:05:50Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > How much do you trust neo-Nazis? Well , that Danish butter must be pretty expensive these days! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3313 "2017-08-14T23:11:59Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > How much do you trust neo-Nazis? > > If there’s one thing we should understand from history, it’s that there is no substitute for an informed and engaged electorate that demands good government, and no protection against a stupid or apathetic one that elects or allows to be elected a dysfunctional or evil government. > > No, it was absolutely on point. No matter how you slice it, dice it, or handwave at it, intransigent absolutism about “rights” instead of a measured assessment of its relationship to the public interest always stems from a basic distrust of whatever institution it is intended to control. No. “Delusional distrust” of government is not an accurate representation of the facts. Historically, governments have been responsible for the most deaths of people at the hands of other people. I’d think the lessons of fascism and communism would make that obvious. 100s of millions dead at the hands of the state is cause to be rationally fearful of concentration of power. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3314 "2017-08-14T23:38:05Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No. “Delusional distrust” of government is not an accurate representation of the facts. Historically, governments have been responsible for the most deaths of people at the hands of other people. I’d think the lessons of fascism and communism would make that obvious. > > 100s of millions dead at the hands of the state is cause to be rationally fearful of concentration of power. That’s seems rational at first glance. Sure, large organized bodies of people have been responsible for the greatest numbers of deaths. But _of course_ that’s true - large organized bodies of people have been responsible for _all_ substantial projects in human history, good and bad. That’s how humans have dominated the planet - our evolutionary niche is effective cooperation among large groups of people. We’re good at fighting wars, but also building hospitals and space telescopes. Citing examples of _bad_ government means nothing. Do you really believe that you are safer from violence in a society _without_ organized government? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3315 "2017-08-15T00:43:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > He was banned for trolling, not for being a Nazi or endorsing them. Thanks. Wasn’t complaining, merely curious. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3316 "2017-08-15T02:46:53Z")
[I heard someone speaking another language–what was it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=833525)? (My “other calling out” this week was for treating abashed for the troll that he is.) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3317 "2017-08-15T02:52:51Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [I heard someone speaking another language–what was it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=833525)? > > (My “other calling out” this week was for treating abashed for the troll that he is.) Self promotion much? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3318 "2017-08-15T04:22:53Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That’s seems rational at first glance. Sure, large organized bodies of people have been responsible for the greatest numbers of deaths. But _of course_ that’s true - large organized bodies of people have been responsible for _all_ substantial projects in human history, good and bad. That’s how humans have dominated the planet - our evolutionary niche is effective cooperation among large groups of people. We’re good at fighting wars, but also building hospitals and space telescopes. > > Citing examples of _bad_ government means nothing. Do you really believe that you are safer from violence in a society _without_ organized government? I didn’t say no government. I am not an anarchist. I advocate constrained government because I am aware of history. That’s not delusional. Delusional is wanting government to do too much. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3319 "2017-08-15T05:18:24Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Self promotion much? Sure–a thread about how people looked like they were fresh out of Africa and were speaking a tribal ritual, and\* I’m\* the problem. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/3320 "2017-08-15T11:17:31Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Sure–a thread about how people looked like they were fresh out of Africa and were speaking a tribal ritual, and\* I’m\* the problem. You weren’t “the problem.” The mod was just offering a gentle reminder – to all of us, in effect – to refrain from jocular responses in GQ until some attempts have been made to answer the question. Not a big deal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489.md?page=165) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489.md?page=167)