# Omnibus Trolls R Us Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489 "2016-05-23T21:38:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 457
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9124 "2019-01-16T20:38:05Z")
But the app is okay? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9125 "2019-01-16T20:39:19Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > What part of “a sincere troll is still a troll” do you not get? If one is unable to be sincere without being inflammatory, then one is likely trolling. And what part of the potential difficulty in discerning intent do _you_ not get? Or how difficult it can be to support freedom of speech even when we don’t like the ideas? Is it possible to draw a cartoon of Mohamed without being inflammatory? Does that mean drawing cartoons of Mohamed should be banned? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9126 "2019-01-16T20:50:00Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And what part of the potential difficulty in discerning intent do _you_ not get? Or how difficult it can be to support freedom of speech even when we don’t like the ideas? “Freedom of speech” does not apply to a privately-run message board. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9127 "2019-01-16T20:55:02Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And what part of the potential difficulty in discerning intent do _you_ not get? Or how difficult it can be to support freedom of speech even when we don’t like the ideas? > > Is it possible to draw a cartoon of Mohamed without being inflammatory? There will be those who are inflamed by depictions of Mohamed, and unless you somehow don’t know that, then drawing such a cartoon is deliberately being inflammatory > [@](#): > > Does that mean drawing cartoons of Mohamed should be banned? In general, or on a private message board that is allowed to set its own rules? In general, I would say not. If you want to put up a picture of mohammed, you can. There may be some consequences for doing so, but we would be happy to prosecute anyone who reacted inappropriately to your depictions. On a private message board, I don’t see why they should have to allow it. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9128 "2019-01-16T20:56:36Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > “Freedom of speech” does not apply to a privately-run message board. Oh, good grief, are you doing the idiotic “you don’t know the U.S. constitution” thing? Yes, I do know the U.S. constitution. But we’re not talking about whether Clothahump’s appeal to the Supreme Court will hold up, are we? The concept of freedom of speech - the free exchange of ideas - is a principle that is far broader than just U.S. constitutional law. We’re debating about what policies this private message board should follow, not whether it has a _right_ to choose them. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9129 "2019-01-16T20:59:01Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Oh, good grief, are you doing the idiotic “you don’t know the U.S. constitution” thing? No, I’m pointing out that you’re being pedantic. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9130 "2019-01-16T21:09:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There will be those who are inflamed by depictions of Mohamed, and unless you somehow don’t know that, then drawing such a cartoon is deliberately being inflammatory. > > In general, or on a private message board that is allowed to set its own rules? > > In general, I would say not. If you want to put up a picture of mohammed, you can. There may be some consequences for doing so, but we would be happy to prosecute anyone who reacted inappropriately to your depictions. Well, it sounds like we’re in agreement on what freedom of expression entails in general. Sometimes people are _always_ going to be upset by what you say, _however_ you say it. So it’s certainly not as simply as saying “if it’s inflammatory it should be banned”. I’m not arguing that the speaker/writer is absolved from _any_ duty of awareness of the impact of his posts. But equally, his obligation cannot be to ensure that nobody is ever upset by what he says or writes. Moderating this fairly (whatever policy is chosen) is always going to involve difficult judgment calls. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > On a private message board, I don’t see why they should have to allow it. That’s what we’re debating - and to be clear I’m not for a moment suggesting that this board has any _statutory_ obligation, they are free to choose any policy they wish. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9131 "2019-01-16T21:17:37Z")
What’s the big deal about silencing trolls, sincere or not, anyway? Are you one of them? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9132 "2019-01-16T21:21:45Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > What’s the big deal about silencing trolls, sincere or not, anyway? Are you one of them? > > 😉 I’m just trying to ingratiate myself with the mods by saying they have a difficult job, so that I have more leeway to be mean to Huey. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9133 "2019-01-16T21:23:23Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think the case of Will Farnaby should be assessed on similar principles. If he’s posting his Randian views _in a thread where that perspective is relevant to the debate_, then I think the only test should be whether he’s sincere. > [@Riemann](#): > > I’m not advocating tolerating jerks without limit. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9134 "2019-01-16T21:24:53Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I’m just trying to ingratiate myself with the mods by saying they have a difficult job, so that I have more leeway to be mean to Huey. In that case, it doesn’t really matter as long as you keep it confined to the Pit. And never admit that you find it entertaining. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9135 "2019-01-16T21:32:04Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > :dubious: Obviously I wasn’t implying that it’s _sufficient_ that a thread be on-topic to deem any kind of behavior whatsoever non-jerkish. But I do think that if a thread is on-topic, and the poster appears to be sincere, we should have considerable leeway for unpopular views even if many of us find them upsetting. (Bigotry would be an exception; but I don’t think general libertarian crankery rises to that level.) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9136 "2019-01-16T22:45:40Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Well, it sounds like we’re in agreement on what freedom of expression entails in general. Sometimes people are _always_ going to be upset by what you say, _however_ you say it. So it’s certainly not as simply as saying “if it’s inflammatory it should be banned”. I’m not arguing that the speaker/writer is absolved from _any_ duty of awareness of the impact of his posts. But equally, his obligation cannot be to ensure that nobody is ever upset by what he says or writes. Moderating this fairly (whatever policy is chosen) is always going to involve difficult judgment calls. People are going to be upset, sure. If I say that the sky is blue and it is a fantastic day, there is someone who is going to be offended by that. You can’t censure yourself to the lowest common denominator. Mark Twain (I think) once said (paraphrased, badly) censorship is like banning steak because a baby doesn’t have teeth. At the same time, most people have enough self awareness to know that there are somethings that are going to piss off most people. If I were to post “[This minority] is inferior because they all [stereotype], and they do that because of [scientific racism]”, then I should be aware taht that is probably going to rile up a number of people. There may be some very limited circumstances where I could maybe pull that of from an academic perspective, and have a “debate” where everyone tells me how wrong I am, but the vast majority of times and places that would be entirely invalid to post, and everyone would be very aware that it was only done because I knew it would offend. If I were to drop into a thread about gun control, and bring up black on black crime out of the blue, then that verges on trolling. In the end, no one really knows if it is trolling but the troll, but everyone can see how disruptive and offensive it is. > [@](#): > > That’s what we’re debating - and to be clear I’m not for a moment suggesting that this board has any _statutory_ obligation, they are free to choose any policy they wish. Well, interestingly enough, this being a private board, they have arbitrary rules, one that we are skirting by discussing board policy (though I think we are only talking in theory, were we talking about actual desired policies, I think this needs to move to ATMB.) I personally think that moderation should be done in a way that allows the least disruption while also being as least disruptive itself. That’s a hard line to follow, and it would be easier if posters co-operated with the idea of having a discussion with as little offense intended and disruptions, but if everyone moderated themselves, then the moderators would be out of a job. So, say for instance, soe postere decided to put a pic of Mohamed up for their avatar? Were you a moderator, would you take that down? I certainly would. There is no reason for that, other than to rile up people, and it comes with potential backlash to the board itself and its owners. > [@Riemann](#): > > Obviously I wasn’t implying that it’s _sufficient_ that a thread be on-topic to deem any kind of behavior whatsoever non-jerkish. > > But I do think that if a thread is on-topic, and the poster appears to be sincere, we should have considerable leeway for unpopular views even if many of us find them upsetting. (Bigotry would be an exception; but I don’t think general libertarian crankery rises to that level.) At a certain point though, it starts to become obvious that the poster isn’t sincere. Take a 911 Troofer. The first time that they claim that the wreckage of Flight 93 couldn’t have possibly all fit into that hole, or whatever the claim is, they may be sincere. After they have been shown many, many, many pieces of evidence that show that the wreckage is indeed from that doomed plane, and they come back around to “Well, this picture proves that it wasn’t a plane that crashed here.” It almost doesn’t matter if they are sincere or not, they are disruptive and they know that the longer they keep it up, the more disruption they can cause. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9137 "2019-01-16T23:06:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > they are disruptive and they know that the longer they keep it up, the more disruption they can cause. And we’ve had sincere neo-Nazis come here for that exact purpose. Some might even still be around, skirting under the radar. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9139 "2019-01-17T12:37:33Z")
> [@Creamylord](#): > > It seems that a certain Mod (rhymes with Scone!) did not like what was said in a certain Great Debates thread and so deemed it fit to not only lock the thread, but also to completely delete the thread itself and all the posts it contained. Someone is Overstepping their Authority here. > I would ask for an explanation as to which rules were broken that warranted a permanent BAN so quickly, with no warning or suspension before hand. But I know that no answer would be given, so I won’t. > Some FYI: I am a 22 year old boy living in London, in social housing, on minimum wage. My parents are refugees/asylum seekers from the Vietnam War. If my ideas upset you so much, then I will simply continue lurking, as before. > I still think this is a good forum full of excellent people! Sadhu! Reported ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9141 "2019-01-17T12:39:21Z")
Guy, we don’t care about your whiny-assed manufacturered drama. We don’t care about your stupid app. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9143 "2019-01-17T12:42:33Z")
What 22yo refers to themselves in the present tense as a “boy”? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9145 "2019-01-17T12:49:36Z")
Lol, touchy one, aren’t you? Insulted easily, it seems. That’s worth knowing, kid. This, er, might not be the right environment for you then. Not that you’ll be here long, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9147 "2019-01-17T22:14:13Z")
[Time to add a third name to my ignore list.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=869119) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9148 "2019-01-17T23:01:27Z")
Something makes me think you don’t have to worry about adding him to your list. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489.md?page=456) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489.md?page=458)