# On abortion, homosexuality, strangers, meddling, and personal belief **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748 "2003-06-05T02:01:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/61 "2003-06-10T18:24:38Z")
The word is con **s** ent, and we do have laws about animal cruelty. We don’t really have any way of knowing if an animal enjoys it do we? It’s against the law to beat or starve a dog and it’s illegal to fuck a dog for the same reason. It’s cruel to the animal. To say that it’s in any way analogous to homosexuality is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/62 "2003-06-10T18:30:59Z")
Until an animal can say, “Yeah, go ahead and mount me, Oliver,” there is no consent. You cannot read an animal’s mind. And comparing sex with animals, children and/or dead people to the relationship I have with my boyfriend is offensive and insulting, in case you were wondering. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/63 "2003-06-10T18:43:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **The word is con** s\*\*ent… \*\* In Canada we say con **c** ent, eh? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*…and we do have laws about animal cruelty. We don’t really have any way of knowing if an animal enjoys it do we? It’s against the law to beat or starve a dog and it’s illegal to fuck a dog for the same reason. It’s cruel to the animal. To say that it’s in any way analogous to homosexuality is absurd. \*\* We have laws against harming an animal but I disagree that they are based on the notion of con **s** ent. Do you get con **s** ent from your dog before you put it in a cage? I could run down a very long list of things we do to dogs, cats, birds, fish, or cows (slaughter) and none of them involve con **s** ent. To say “it’s illegal because the animal doesn’t like it” is irrelevant, if it out right harms the animal than yes, its wrong. However, its possible the animal might enjoy it. Probably more than the slop we feed it every single day. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*To say that it’s in any way analogous to homosexuality is absurd. \*\* I agree, and in no way meant to imply that it did. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* And comparing sex with animals, children and/or dead people to the relationship I have with my boyfriend is offensive and insulting, in case you were wondering. \*\* Again, I don’t intend to compare the two acts. I’m simply adressing the issue of con **s** ent. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/64 "2003-06-10T19:12:47Z")
If it doesn’t harm anyone, it’s okay? I guess it’s okay to hate Jews then, as long as you don’t actually harm them. Or it’s okay to peek at your neighbor in the shower, as long as you don’t harm them, and peek in such a way that you don’t get caught. I see no reason to accept the tenet that an action is automaticaly okay, as long as that it harms nobody. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/65 "2003-06-10T20:00:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > **I guess it’s okay to hate Jews then, as long as you don’t actually harm them.** I am Jewish by descent and I would say it is absolutely OK to hate Jews as long as you don’t harm them. I would even say it’s OK to peek in a shower as long as you don’t harm the peekee, but chances are you’re going to harm them either by them finding out about it, or you telling someone about it and word getting around, etc., in which case it is not OK. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/66 "2003-06-10T20:37:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\*If it doesn’t harm anyone, it’s okay? > > I guess it’s okay to hate Jews then, as long as you don’t actually harm them. > > Or it’s okay to peek at your neighbor in the shower, as long as you don’t harm them, and peek in such a way that you don’t get caught. > > I see no reason to accept the tenet that an action is automaticaly okay, as long as that it harms nobody. \*\* Why don’t you tell us why homosexuality is _not_ ok…and do it without resorting to a supernatural authority. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/67 "2003-06-10T20:49:23Z")
Yes, I’m still waiting to hear how my homosexuality harms anyone at all. Oh, and thanks to all of those who are providing ample supply of what the OP was asking about in the first place. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/68 "2003-06-10T21:10:57Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > Humping another of the same sex has the potential to cause great emotional damage to the parents of the people involved. > > I know a friend that has a mother that tried to commit suicide because it is extremely frowned upon in the Korean culture when she found out that he was having sex with another man. She is now hospitalized. > > Is that ok?\*\* First of all, most Korean mothers are such that they would/do threaten suicide over such little things as their sons getting Bs instead of As. My boyfriend’s Korean mother would probably have a heart attack if she knew that her son was atheist. Does that mean that being an atheist is bad? There are plenty of gays who parents love and accept them. Not loving your gay child because of their homosexuality is a far greater crime than being homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/69 "2003-06-10T21:27:17Z")
Come to think of it, I’d probably have a heart attack if my daughter became a born-again Christian, so Christianity has to go on that list too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748/70 "2003-06-10T21:27:50Z")
**JThunder** , I can more or less see the point that you’re vaguely alluding to, but it might be both more courteous to your fellow posters, and more easy to grasp, if you _actually said what it is you mean_. (In other words, I can conceive of situations in which “mutual consent” does not make a given action performed by two persons “OK” – an obvious example is a suicide pact.) As for the other parts, if you can show me a Jew who consents to being hated, or a neighbor who consents to being peeked at in the shower, then you might have an analogy that stands up. Or how about this one: two people fall in love and, as is human nature, decide that they want to have sex, which society frowns on. So they make promises to each other, and suddenly it’s OK for them to do so. (You’ve seen this argument from hundreds of college freshmen, no doubt.) Now, review that formula in the last paragraph and tell me what assumptions are unspoken and why they need to be present. If you can evolve a good answer for that, you may have a decent argument for your case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-abortion-homosexuality-strangers-meddling-and-personal-belief/179748.md?page=3)