# On an assault weapon ban **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469 "2016-06-15T22:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/641 "2016-07-15T20:38:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Specialized bomb squads aren’t law enforcement? SWAT teams aren’t law enforcement? That seems strange to me. They’re not regular cops. I don’t know that a regular cop could get c4 even if he asked for it. Unlike regular infantry, which does have access to explosives in the form of grenades, regular cops do not. > [@](#): > > Well, if you weren’t saying that, nor mentioning it, how are you still in this conversation? Just stop saying and or mentioning it. I am not wrong. I am not trying to be funny. People on this message board think everything available to law enforcement should be available to civilians. If you don’t think that, then good for you. Who thinks that everything available to law enforcement should be available to cops? Law enforcement has access to machine gun mounted armored personnel carriers. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/642 "2016-07-16T00:44:34Z")
I’ll just do an easy one first: > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So items in category 1 but NOT in category 2 such as grenades, machine guns, etc. could be regulated with respect to carry rights, storage requirements, eligibility for ownership, etc. Note that Damuri Ajashi advocates regulation for grenades, machine guns, etc. NOT banning. NOT making them inaccessible to civilians, but merely regulation. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/643 "2016-07-16T01:47:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’ll just do an easy one first: > > Note that Damuri Ajashi advocates regulation for grenades, machine guns, etc. NOT banning. NOT making them inaccessible to civilians, but merely regulation. I advocate for regulations of lots of things. I advocate for licensing of all gun owners and registration of all firearms. I advocate for for various levels of licensing depending on the type of firearm (I haven’t really thought much about explosives to be honest). But I ALSO advocate for a national carry license and the repeal of all other federal firearms laws (they are all a patchwork of sloppy incomplete attempts at achieving what a licensing and registration regime would achieve anyways) and pre-empting all state and local firearms laws (most local laws are either some form of licensing/registration/permit requirement or unnecessary infringements on the right to keep and bear arms. I might support some ancillary laws like storage laws for weapons, etc. but mostly I think you replace the whole goddam mess with licensing and registration and if that doesn’t work to your satisfaction then you are welcome to amend the constitution if you can. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/644 "2016-07-16T01:54:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I advocate for regulations of lots of things. > > I advocate for licensing of all gun owners and registration of all firearms. I advocate for for various levels of licensing depending on the type of firearm (I haven’t really thought much about explosives to be honest). But I ALSO advocate for a national carry license and the repeal of all other federal firearms laws (they are all a patchwork of sloppy incomplete attempts at achieving what a licensing and registration regime would achieve anyways) and pre-empting all state and local firearms laws (most local laws are either some form of licensing/registration/permit requirement or unnecessary infringements on the right to keep and bear arms. I might support some ancillary laws like storage laws for weapons, etc. but mostly I think you replace the whole goddam mess with licensing and registration and if that doesn’t work to your satisfaction then you are welcome to amend the constitution if you can. Thanks for the straightforward answer (no sarcasm) One thing I never understood is why concealed carry is not federalized. If I have CCW in one state, why is that NOT recognized in another state? Marriage is recognized. Driver’s licenses are recognized. Why not concealed carry permits? Any lawsuits for that? Also, for some reason, registration is frowned upon, although I must admit, I’m not sure what the point of registration is. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/645 "2016-07-16T03:20:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > One thing I never understood is why concealed carry is not federalized. If I have CCW in one state, why is that NOT recognized in another state? Marriage is recognized. Driver’s licenses are recognized. Why not concealed carry permits? Any lawsuits for that? Because with a few exceptions bundled into the federal government’s regulation of interstate commerce, gun control has been mostly left to the states. And until comparatively recently carry licencing had been more about denying people carry than permitting it, so reciprocation didn’t make much sense. BTW, it took a Supreme Court decision to force the states to recognize interracial marriage; and iirc driver’s licenses are honored due to states having negotiated common standards. > [@](#): > > Also, for some reason, registration is frowned upon, although I must admit, I’m not sure what the point of registration is. In theory registration- requiring every gun out there to have a legal owner of record- would make it easier to track stolen guns and prosecute owners who negligently or maliciously let their guns pass out of their control. In theory anyway- good luck prosecuting every illegal gun offense in the country. Registration is in principle a good idea- but then so is voter ID. The well is too poisoned by past experience to trust either. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/646 "2016-07-17T00:48:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Because with a few exceptions bundled into the federal government’s regulation of interstate commerce, gun control has been mostly left to the states. And until comparatively recently carry licencing had been more about denying people carry than permitting it, so reciprocation didn’t make much sense. BTW, it took a Supreme Court decision to force the states to recognize interracial marriage; and iirc driver’s licenses are honored due to states having negotiated common standards. > > In theory registration- requiring every gun out there to have a legal owner of record- would make it easier to track stolen guns and prosecute owners who negligently or maliciously let their guns pass out of their control. In theory anyway- good luck prosecuting every illegal gun offense in the country. Registration is in principle a good idea- but then so is voter ID. The well is too poisoned by past experience to trust either. I had a long treatise prepared and ready to go on these two subjects and you ninja’d me with about 100 words. You would starve as a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/647 "2016-07-26T02:18:33Z")
> [@Ru5tyShackleford](#): > > How? What makes an assault weapon SO deadly? Is it the mechanical function? I just ask because an assault weapon is a semi-automatic rifle with certain features. Most of these features allow the gun to be used more effectively but does not affect the function. > > Now you can make the argument that these functions make them more deadly. But you fail to account for the trade offs of using a rifle. > > A rifle is best used in a non-confined environment at medium to long distance. Anything else and the barrel is a pain to move around indoors and allows the gun to be grabbed more easily. > > The length makes it easier to recognize a threat too. > But let’s say you ban an assault weapon. > > X buys two Glock 10mm pistols with a 30 round mags loaded with hollowpoints. > > They go into a classroom and unload dual wielding the guns. > > You have just doubled the death rate vs an AR15 with on 30 round mag. > This ban was tried in the past. What could the evidence prove? How many injuries and lives did it save? > > ZERO lives saved / ZERO injuries prevented > In fact, our murder rate is LOWER now than when the ban was in place (not saying the AR is responsible for the reduced murder rate; but it did not increase). > > BTW…most mass shooters use pistols. > > [US Mass Shootings, 1982–2024: Data From Mother Jones’ Investigation – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data) The obvious answer is to ban the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of all semi-automatic weapons. Their only purpose is to kill other human beings. They are of little or no use in hunting and very few experienced hunters even own them. This together with a mandatory buyback at fair market value would go a long way toward reducing gun deaths. According to the recent SCOTUS decision for the 1st time we all have a right to “bear arms” but the gov’t can tell you what you can own and the conditions of its sale. So, perhaps its time to shut up about the 2nd amendment and join the rest of the civilized world. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/648 "2016-07-26T02:48:39Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > The obvious answer is to ban the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of all semi-automatic weapons. Their only purpose is to kill other human beings. > > They are of little or no use in hunting and very few experienced hunters even own them. This together with a mandatory buyback at fair market value would go a long way toward reducing gun deaths. > > According to the recent SCOTUS decision for the 1st time we all have a right to “bear arms” but the gov’t can tell you what you can own and the conditions of its sale. So, perhaps its time to shut up about the 2nd amendment and join the rest of the civilized world. While another poster spews arguments based in ignorance tragedy happens in Japan [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/at-least-15-people-reported-dead-in-knife-attack-in-japan/2016/07/25/b0052b71-2c28-4de2-bd0d-577ccbca6586\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/at-least-15-people-reported-dead-in-knife-attack-in-japan/2016/07/25/b0052b71-2c28-4de2-bd0d-577ccbca6586_story.html) Yet no one is brave enough to try and solve the real problems, which are not caused by objects. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/649 "2016-07-26T02:53:51Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > The obvious answer is to ban the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of all semi-automatic weapons. Their only purpose is to kill other human beings. > > They are of little or no use in hunting and very few experienced hunters even own them. Odd, since so few do. Most are used for target shooting, collecting, hunting, and yes, survivalists. Plenty of experienced hunters use semi-autos for deer hunting. > **[The Most Versatile Semi-Automatic Rifles](https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/guns/rifles/centerfire/2011/11/20-best-semi-automatic-rifles-big-game-hunting/)** > > We put together versatile semi-automatic rifles that can be used for big-game hunting or target shooting. [http://www.fieldandstream.com/node/1005010614](http://www.fieldandstream.com/node/1005010614) There’s also the Browning BAR MK 3 Stalker Semiautomatic Rifle,Remington® 750™ Woodmaster™ Semiautomatic Rifles, Sauer #303, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/650 "2016-07-26T14:43:59Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > The obvious answer is to ban the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of all semi-automatic weapons. Their only purpose is to kill other human beings. > > They are of little or no use in hunting and very few experienced hunters even own them. This together with a mandatory buyback at fair market value would go a long way toward reducing gun deaths. > > According to the recent SCOTUS decision for the 1st time we all have a right to “bear arms” but the gov’t can tell you what you can own and the conditions of its sale. So, perhaps its time to shut up about the 2nd amendment and join the rest of the civilized world. Meh, the rest of the civilized world seems to have their fair share of massacres. I’m not sure the 2nd Amendment is really the root of all evil, especially after what’s been happening in France, Germany, and Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/651 "2016-07-26T15:44:37Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > The obvious answer is to ban the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of all semi-automatic weapons. Their only purpose is to kill other human beings. That’s not correct. Outside the military, the purpose of a gun is to stop the owner of the gun from being killed, robbed, raped, etc. They do that by allowing the owner to offer lethal force. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/652 "2016-07-26T16:16:40Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > The obvious answer is to ban the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of all semi-automatic weapons. Their only purpose is to kill other human beings. > > They are of little or no use in hunting and very few experienced hunters even own them. This together with a mandatory buyback at fair market value would go a long way toward reducing gun deaths… I love it when know it all’s talk with authority about subjects they have no clue about. Plenty of “experienced” hunters own and even use semi auto guns. My semi auto shotguns were designed to hunt birds. When equipped with a rifled barrel, they were designed to hunt deer and other big game. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/653 "2016-07-26T16:34:52Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but most gun crime is done with pistols. It’s easier to conceal a pistol than a rifle or a shotgun. So, ban pistols instead. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/654 "2016-07-26T16:43:35Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > [Semi-automatic weapons] are of little or no use in hunting and very few experienced hunters even own them. Could we get a cite for the blue part? Or is this based on your own personal detailed knowledge of the gun collections of numerous experienced hunters? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/655 "2016-07-26T17:10:59Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but most gun crime is done with pistols. It’s easier to conceal a pistol than a rifle or a shotgun. So, ban pistols instead. Good luck with that. By far and away. \*Of all firearm-related crime reported to the survey, 86% involved handguns \* > **[Home](https://bjs.ojp.gov)** > > The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) is the United States' primary source for criminal justice statistics that cover a wide range of topics. Handguns are specifically protected by SCOTUS rulings. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/656 "2016-07-26T17:13:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Could we get a cite for the blue part? Or is this based on your own personal detailed knowledge of the gun collections of numerous experienced hunters? To give him a little bit of credit, maybe he’s thinking of the pseudo-military guns, often in .223 or even pistol calibers, not the best for deer hunting. (Fine for varmits, tho). But it does reveal a certain level of ignorance about guns. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/657 "2016-07-26T22:32:32Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > While another poster spews arguments based in ignorance tragedy happens in Japan > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/at-least-15-people-reported-dead-in-knife-attack-in-japan/2016/07/25/b0052b71-2c28-4de2-bd0d-577ccbca6586\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/at-least-15-people-reported-dead-in-knife-attack-in-japan/2016/07/25/b0052b71-2c28-4de2-bd0d-577ccbca6586_story.html) > > Yet no one is brave enough to try and solve the real problems, which are not caused by objects. Here we go again, guns don’t kill people - people do. The people killed in Japan were in a home for the incapacitated. Too bad the killer of 19 people only had a knife, with a military rifle and 50rd clips he could have killed at least half the over 200 patients without breaking a sweat. “Real problems” like crazy people? Every country can be assumed to have their share of crazy people. So long as they can only easily get their hands on knives or cricket bats we can all rest a little easier. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/658 "2016-07-26T22:36:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Meh, the rest of the civilized world seems to have their fair share of massacres. I’m not sure the 2nd Amendment is really the root of all evil, especially after what’s been happening in France, Germany, and Japan. The horrendous massacres in Europe and Japan would merely be a blip in the statistics from the US. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/659 "2016-07-26T23:31:43Z")
[QUOTE=DtypeJag] Too bad the killer of 19 people only had a knife, with a military rifle and 50rd clips he could have killed at least half the over 200 patients without breaking a sweat. [/QUOTE] Yet here, in the US where such weapons ARE available to pretty much everyone, that doesn’t happen. Why? > [@](#): > > “Real problems” like crazy people? Every country can be assumed to have their share of crazy people. So long as they can only easily get their hands on knives or cricket bats we can all rest a little easier. Can we? What do you base that on? I mean, in several countries with very high levels of gun control we’ve seen people still killed with guns…AND with knives, trucks, bombs and assorted other things. Seems to me that crazy people are going to kill, regardless of gun control, and body counts are going to depend simply on how creative the crazy mother fuckers are, not on what tool they use to do what they do. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/660 "2016-07-26T23:37:26Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I love it when know it all’s talk with authority about subjects they have no clue about. Plenty of “experienced” hunters own and even use semi auto guns. My semi auto shotguns were designed to hunt birds. When equipped with a rifled barrel, they were designed to hunt deer and other big game. You’re right. I should have said very experienced rather than just experienced. I was thinking specifically of people who used to do this for a living. Big game hunters and guides. People like Jack O’Conner who for almost 50 yrs wrote many columns for outdoor type magazines as well as several books on both shotgunning and hunting with a rifle. He and the people he respected as fellow outdoorsmen had a very low opinion of semi-auto rifles and shotguns. If I remember right the main criticism was that with the recoil of center fire hunting calibers it was impossible to gain any advantage over a fleeing antelope with an SA vs say a bolt action, lever or pump. For upland game it was the same story for anything larger than a .410 plus you were limited by law to 3 rds in most states. O’Conner thought that the auto loading shotgun would have been an advantage for the market hunters of the late 19th and early 20th cent. an era of no bag limits using 10 and sometimes 8ga guns that could hold any # of shells in a magazine. When geese and ducks would cover the sky you could just blast away, you could’t miss. Unfortunately autoloading guns were just being developed. These people usually reloaded their own brass and paper shells which because they were not perfectly sized would often jam the action . Speaking of which, aesthetically they were not pleasing. Monkey motion in the auto loading system due to the internal mass jerking back and forth was contrasted with the satisfying punch from his double barrel or bolt action. Simplicity of repair in the field was another advantage. The center of mass made them feel unbalanced and they plain just didn’t look very good. For the lesser powered military calibers 5.56 & 7.62 recoil problems are much reduced even though they generally weigh less than civilian hunting rifles. The 5.56 especially can be held at least somewhere in the vicinity of the target on full auto. Just because there are alot of long guns that are autoloading for sale doesn’t mean they are a better tool. Like the auto companies, arms companies will build what they think they can sell or convince people that this is what they should have. They know there is alot of scared little people out there who fancy themselves Rambo spraying bullets in all directions in defense of God, freedom and the American way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469.md?page=34)