# On an assault weapon ban **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469 "2016-06-15T22:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/681 "2016-07-29T05:13:39Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I just said that the Benelli semi autos are a quality gun built specifically for hunting. They fire so fast and handle recoil so nicely that one never needs to take their eye off of the target after the first shot. A double is nice and fast but it only holds two and reloads take forever. Only a moron would fire both barrels at the same time, and they would only do it once. > > The AR series was introduced in 1958, 20 years before he passed. The AK-47 was introduced in 1948. I’m sure he would have no use for hunting with either as he was content with his 1964 Winchester model 70. At the same time, his writings were clear that he would and did support ownership of both by average Joes. Zumbo on the other hand, linked the AR-15 with terrorists. He heard quite quickly from 10’s of thousands of hunters and sportsmen that yes the AR has a place in the law abiding gun owner’s hands, for hunting and sport. He found out real quick that as an “experienced” hunter and writer he had allowed himself to get out of touch with his readers and lost everything as a result. I think comparatively few of these guns were sold to the public before sufficient # of customers became afraid of world-wide conspiracies involving the UN, atheists attacking Xmas, every Democrat, climate scientists and who knows what else trying to take away their guns. What sort of “hunter” would go deer hunting with this sort of rifle? Maybe one who was scared of being attacked by that herd of deer just beyond the tree line. Maybe he could mow them down with his 30rd clip shooting from the hip. Are .223 cal even legal to shoot deer with? Sport? what kind of sport? Target shooting? With their short barrels and loose tolerances these are not made to group shots at 2 or 300yds competitively with other types of rifle, say O’Conners '64 Model 70. I’m sorry I just don’t get it. What could the real attraction be other than the Rambo fantasy? All you have to do is read the sometimes less than subtle messages in the ads run by some gun manufacturers. “Real men won’t settle for anything less” sort of thing. Again, the real problem isn’t these Rambo wanabes and their toys and certainly not the hunters who insist on autoloaders ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/682 "2016-07-29T06:08:37Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > I think comparatively few of these guns were sold to the public before sufficient # of customers became afraid of world-wide conspiracies involving the UN, atheists attacking Xmas, every Democrat, climate scientists and who knows what else trying to take away their guns. True. The sales sky rocketed after Bush I banned the import of “assault” weapons in 1988, rose even higher after Clinton signed the “assault weapon” ban of 1994 and then went through the roof after the ban sunset in 2004. What drove the sales initially was the threat that government would not allow them to be sold in the future. Once the ban was allowed to expire, manufacturers had to change their marketing plans to sell more rifles. That is when everything became tacticool. Millions of sales later and they are still just a blip in the homicide tables with less than one thousand deaths annualy being linked to ALL rifles and shotguns combined, not just the semi auto varieties. [LINK](https://www.quandl.com/data/FBI/WEAPONS11-US-Murders-by-Weapon-Type) > [@](#): > > What sort of “hunter” would go deer hunting with this sort of rifle? Maybe one who was scared of being attacked by that herd of deer just beyond the tree line. Maybe he could mow them down with his 30rd clip shooting from the hip. Are .223 cal even legal to shoot deer with? The AR platform is chambered in at least 50 different calibers including .270 and .308. More than capable of taking a deer, hog, or any other medium sized game. Most states limit mag size for hunting just like with waterfowl. > [@](#): > > Sport? what kind of sport? Target shooting? With their short barrels and loose tolerances these are not made to group shots at 2 or 300yds competitively with other types of rifle, say O’Conners '64 Model 70. Just like Zumbo, it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. There are plenty of sport shooting events such as 3-Gun competitions that almost exclusively use AR patterned rifles, semi shotguns, and semi auto pistols. The AR is not a loose tolerance gun by any means. It has milled parts and milled upper and lower receivers. 1 to 2 MOA accuracy with open sights and surplus ammo is average. A Win70 in 223 open sighted wont shoot much better with the same ammo. > [@](#): > > I’m sorry I just don’t get it. What could the real attraction be other than the Rambo fantasy? All you have to do is read the sometimes less than subtle messages in the ads run by some gun manufacturers. “Real men won’t settle for anything less” sort of thing. > > Again, the real problem isn’t these Rambo wanabes and their toys and certainly not the hunters who insist on autoloaders I’m glad you realize that the problem is with handguns not rifles, semi auto or otherwise. As to why people are attracted to AR’s it’s pretty simple. They are lightweight, low recoil, reasonably priced, and are fun to shoot. There doesn’t need to be any other reasons. No fantasies of zombie takeovers. No penis jokes. It is simply a fun thing to do. I’ll add that if you are ever in the midwest, I’d be happy to take you shooting to show you what they are all about. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/683 "2016-07-29T17:15:25Z")
One thing that is interesting is that both sides are pretty stubborn and unwilling to compromise. Both sides have good and bad points. But as shown here, very clearly, what with “Hunters dont use semi-autos” “Colonials couldn’t own cannons” and “It’s just fine to fire off both barrels of a double barrel shotgun”- is that the antigun side clearly has a great amount of ignorance over that they think they should be allowed to regulate. The pro-gun side at least isn’t ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/684 "2016-07-29T17:21:37Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > I think comparatively few of these guns were sold to the public before sufficient # of customers became afraid of world-wide conspiracies involving the UN, atheists attacking Xmas, every Democrat, climate scientists and who knows what else trying to take away their guns. > > What sort of “hunter” would go deer hunting with this sort of rifle? Maybe one who was scared of being attacked by that herd of deer just beyond the tree line. Maybe he could mow them down with his 30rd clip shooting from the hip. Are .223 cal even legal to shoot deer with? Sport? what kind of sport? Target shooting? > > I’m sorry I just don’t get it. > s In most states they are legal to hunt deer with, like California. The common .223 is not ideal for larger deer. They are ideal for varmit hunting or small game. So wrong again. They are enormously fun to shoot. Yes, we know you “just don’t get it” mostly do to your clear ignorance on guns, as repeatedly shown here. Honestly, there _are_ arguments for moderate gun control- but as long as you know nothing about guns, you’re not going to be making any. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/685 "2016-07-29T17:44:54Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > But be that as it may, personally I would be happy to see only semi-auto pistols be banned. As said before they are only of use for gang members who can’t hit atarget without spaying a shower of bullets in the general direction or to pound nails if you don’t have a hammer. What a silly notion. Why do you think police carry semi auto pistols as their duty weapon? ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/686 "2016-07-29T17:48:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > One thing that is interesting is that both sides are pretty stubborn and unwilling to compromise. Both sides have good and bad points. > > But as shown here, very clearly, what with “Hunters dont use semi-autos” “Colonials couldn’t own cannons” and “It’s just fine to fire off both barrels of a double barrel shotgun”- is that the antigun side clearly has a great amount of ignorance over that they think they should be allowed to regulate. > > The pro-gun side at least isn’t ignorant. To JXJohns - I see we somewhat agree on what causes most gun deaths. That said, in the '60’s I was the Battalion top marksmen so for some reason they made me the armorer. This was just as the M-14 was being replaced by the M-16, the Plastic Wonder Weapon. They were no match for the M-14 beyond 75 or 100yd, target wise. The light bullet would be deflected to much by a breeze or in practice by a tree twig. But this is not what they were designed for which was close quarter rapid fire. In this they were far superior to the M-14 which was what you’d expect a govt. issue hunting rifle to be. To repeatedly fire a 5 1/2lb gun in .270 or .308 must be unpleasant to say the least. The much heavier M-14 was no fun. Speaking of fun I think you’ve got something there. Firing a machine gun is “fun”, especially with tracers at night but its like what next? Throwing grenades is fun too. Every boy likes to blow things up. Where does it stop? As far as DrDeth goes I never said any of those things. Of course hunters use autoloaders, I was trying to figure out why. If it was legal to own a cannon its probably because no one imagined it would be necessary to prohibit it. Heroin was probably legal too. I did not say firing both barrels of a double at the same time would be “fine”. What I was saying sarcastically is that if auto fans thought it was such an advantage to rapidly fire one shell after another, get a double where in the limit you can fire both barrels at once. Reduced to explaining jokes ruins them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/687 "2016-07-29T17:56:45Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > As far as DrDeth goes I never said any of those things. Of course hunters use autoloaders, I was trying to figure out why. If it was legal to own a cannon its probably because no one imagined it would be necessary to prohibit it. Heroin was probably legal too. I did not say firing both barrels of a double at the same time would be “fine”. What I was saying sarcastically is that if auto fans thought it was such an advantage to rapidly fire one shell after another, get a double where in the limit you can fire both barrels at once. \*The obvious answer is to ban the sale, manufacture, importation and possession of all semi-automatic weapons. Their only purpose is to kill other human beings. They are of little or no use in hunting and very few experienced hunters even own them.\* _If they are an advantage then a double barrel shotgun or rifle would be even better, especially with the double trigger models – you can fire both barrels at the same time - twice as good. ._ Now, it was \*\*DerekMichaels \*\* who said _“the answer to this question is easy: did the Founders let ordinary joes have cannons?”_ ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469/688 "2016-07-30T11:01:20Z")
[quote=“Damuri\_Ajashi, post:297, topic:757469”] No cites, its just established fact? You know we’re in great debates, right? Tens of families? Tens of families bury their dead gunshot victims EVERY DAY!!! (quote) approx. 90 gun deaths per day, nationwide. Many are suicides, but, still, 90 is 9 'tens of families". The statement was correct by at least a factor of 4. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-an-assault-weapon-ban/757469.md?page=34)