# On Asking Smokers Not To **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709 "2010-05-25T15:48:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/81 "2010-05-27T13:53:18Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Smoking is a need now? No, the need is to have one’s rights respected. > [@](#): > > And tobacco smoke sensitivity is much more common than previously thought. Epidemiologic data coming from communities where strict smoking laws have been enacted recently show lower rates of ER visits and hospitalizations for asthma and other respiratory diseases occurring among nonsmokers after the laws were inacted. As I am sure you are aware, many contend that there are [psychosomatic components to ailments like asthma.](http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=showproducts&searchWhat=books&searchParm=toc&ProduktNr=229229) If you have any data about the incidence of tobacco sensitivity so severe that it can be triggered from two rooms away, simply by the breath of someone who has recently smoked a cigarette, I would be interested in seeing it. Of course, the best test would be some kind of blind study, where you put the alleged sufferer into a room, and then have ten people enter another room two rooms away, only one of the ten having recently smoked a cigarette. It would be interesting if the sufferer could detect the correct one more than 10% of the time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/82 "2010-05-27T13:56:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As Spock would say, the needs of the many must take precedence over the needs of the few. The _many_? I don’t think so. How about “The health of the many must take precedence over the unhealthy addictions of the few.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/83 "2010-05-27T14:01:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, the need is to have one’s rights respected. I think the right to breathe cleaner air should be a stronger right than the right to share your unhealthy addictions with unwilling others. I _am_ willing to compromise in this way, however-there should be free clinics out there to help addicts kick their habit. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/84 "2010-05-27T14:06:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think the right to breathe cleaner air should be a stronger right than the right to share your unhealthy addictions with unwilling others. I _am_ willing to compromise in this way, however-there should be free clinics out there to help addicts kick their habit. You must have a right to feel this way because you could not possibly be doing anything that anyone else considers an infringement of their health or rights. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/85 "2010-05-27T14:11:53Z")
To the OP: I had great success in the past but not so much lately. And I’ve even tried “brother to brother” pulling out a cigar as a bribe and to show that I’m not against smoking so much as against it at bus stops and like places. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t think this is a battle you’ll win - smokers like to smoke outside, regardless of who they’re affecting or where they are. If it isn’t a hard and fast NO SMOKING area, you don’t have much of a leg to stand on asking them to stop. We’ve debated this in other threads but I’m not all that sure we like smoking outside so much that that is the only space left us. Depending on your state/county/town even bars are closed to smokers making the sidewalks open season. Even where smoking outside the home is banned, look at the “levels of retribution” - smoke at work, get fired - smoke at a bar, get them fined and get banned - smoke on the sidewalk, risk something heftier than a parking ticket but no big deal. Number three, as much as I may hate it, looks like the winner. > [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Most smokers don’t like the fact that they smoke, but they like less when non-smokers point out their health problems for no reason. Smoking outside is harmless to everyone but the smoker. . OK - I’ll let the first line slide because of the word “most”. But that last? There are folks out there with serious breathing issues; I’m talking the kind of folks I met as a volunteer at our local Camp Huff-n-puff and the woman I married. Someone lighting up at a bus stop means they can leave and miss the bus or stand there and risk a trip to the ER and a night under treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/86 "2010-05-27T14:13:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The _many_? I don’t think so. Then all that is needed is a cite that there are “many” people suffering from tobacco sensitivity so severe that their allergic attacks are triggered from two rooms away by the breath of someone who has recently smoked a cigarette. Please supply one. > [@](#): > > I think the right to breathe cleaner air should be a stronger right than the right to share your unhealthy addictions with unwilling others. Fortunately for me, your beliefs are not ones which you can force onto me. Thus, if I am smoking my cigar in an area which is not posted as non-smoking, and you attempt to tell me to stop, I am perfectly within my rights to tell you to mind your own business, at whatever level of politeness seems appropriate. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/87 "2010-05-27T14:14:03Z")
> [@ed malin](#): > > You must have a right to feel this way because you could not possibly be doing anything that anyone else considers an infringement of their health or rights. I really can’t think of any. I buy local, use public transportation, support local and national free speech issues etc. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/88 "2010-05-27T14:15:51Z")
And now I’d like to make my closing arguments. I started this thread with the intent of garnering ideas on handling a delicate situation –nothing more. I was especially interested in those who have actually been on the receiving or active end of the request and some posters have weighed in with their experiences. I didn’t want this to spiral down and degenerate into another smokers vs. anti-smokers debate which can be summed up with both sides essentially saying: “We hate you, you suck” and its many derivatives. I must say I’m surprised that several posters read into the OP some degree of self-righteousness or a hidden agenda. As a partial observer, I don’t see it and more importantly, I can honestly say that wasn’t my intent. You can go through my past posts through lo these many years and I don’t think that emerges as a common theme and for that matter, I’ve never previously weighed in on the tobaccco use debate. Lastly getting back on point, I suppose I was bothered more from the idea of someone smoking at the playground than the smoke itself. Also now that I think back, none of the other parents seemed to care in the slightest. As some of the posters asserted, a sincere request normally elicits a courteous response but considering the delicate ground on which this matter rests, it doesn’t seem worth the bother. I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/89 "2010-05-27T14:33:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, the need is to have one’s rights respected. > As I am sure you are aware, many contend that there are [psychosomatic components to ailments like asthma.](http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=showproducts&searchWhat=books&searchParm=toc&ProduktNr=229229) Still debatable, but even if true, psychosomatic triggers still cause morbidity and mortality for disease like asthma _which kills 5000 people in the US every year_. > [@](#): > > If you have any data about the incidence of tobacco sensitivity so severe that it can be triggered from two rooms away, simply by the breath of someone who has recently smoked a cigarette, I would be interested in seeing it. > > Of course, the best test would be some kind of blind study, where you put the alleged sufferer into a room, and then have ten people enter another room two rooms away, only one of the ten having recently smoked a cigarette. It would be interesting if the sufferer could detect the correct one more than 10% of the time. Interesting studies to contemplate perhaps, but not really germane to monitoring the state of public health. Epidemiologic data is sufficient for determining whether or not secondhand smoke is causing nonsmokers to suffer and die. And at present, the best epidemiological evidence indicates that it does do so. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/90 "2010-05-27T14:54:43Z")
> [@ed malin](#): > > You must have a right to feel this way because you could not possibly be doing anything that anyone else considers an infringement of their health or rights. This again? I feel like it always comes down to, “OK, but you guys are fat/smell bad, and we don’t complain about it!” It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and just sounds overly defensive. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/91 "2010-05-27T15:05:56Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Epidemiologic data is sufficient for determining whether or not secondhand smoke is causing nonsmokers to suffer and die. And at present, the best epidemiological evidence indicates that it does do so. At the level of exposure that we are talking about? I.e. someone’s breath from two rooms away? Someone smoking outdoors? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/92 "2010-05-27T15:08:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > At the level of exposure that we are talking about? I.e. someone’s breath from two rooms away? Someone smoking outdoors? That may well be the case. Evidence indicates there’s no safe level of exposure. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/93 "2010-05-27T15:29:58Z")
> [@campp](#): > > Just stand next to them and begin farting. This cracked me up! **minlokwat** : FWIW, that’s how I took your OP, and I think you’ve got your answer. Ask politely and you’ve got a fair chance of good results. Unless they’re an asshole, and then they’ll be rude. Really, most smokers I know don’t want to bother people, we know that a lot of folks find cigarette smoke annoying. OTOH, those of you who get consistently rude reactions might just want to look at your own attitudes and behavior. **overlyverbose** , looks like I misread your meaning. Sorry! I’m out, as well. There’s no point to these arguments, they just get ugly. But before I go, I’ll toss in an absolutely true anecdote, just for fun. Once upon a time, there was a smoker working in an office in a building that still allowed smoking inside personal offices. Said person was the only smoker in the department. Down the hall was an office belonging to two women who bitched continuously about the cigarette smoke getting into their office from smoker’s office. It not only made them sick from the smell, but it was killing their plants! Eventually the BossMan got tired of listening to the whining, and called the Evil Smoker into his office. “Evil Smoker” says he, “would you _please_ consider not smoking in your office? These bimbos are driving me crazy!” “Not a problem, Mr. Bossman” replied the Evil Smoker. “I quit smoking in there 6 months ago because I was tired of listening to them, too. I’ve just been waiting for them to notice.” ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/94 "2010-05-27T16:54:10Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > This cracked me up! > > **minlokwat** : FWIW, that’s how I took your OP, and I think you’ve got your answer. Ask politely and you’ve got a fair chance of good results. Unless they’re an asshole, and then they’ll be rude. Really, most smokers I know don’t want to bother people, we know that a lot of folks find cigarette smoke annoying. > > OTOH, those of you who get consistently rude reactions might just want to look at your own attitudes and behavior. > > **overlyverbose** , looks like I misread your meaning. Sorry! > > I’m out, as well. There’s no point to these arguments, they just get ugly. > > But before I go, I’ll toss in an absolutely true anecdote, just for fun. > > Once upon a time, there was a smoker working in an office in a building that still allowed smoking inside personal offices. Said person was the only smoker in the department. Down the hall was an office belonging to two women who bitched continuously about the cigarette smoke getting into their office from smoker’s office. It not only made them sick from the smell, but it was killing their plants! > > Eventually the BossMan got tired of listening to the whining, and called the Evil Smoker into his office. “Evil Smoker” says he, “would you _please_ consider not smoking in your office? These bimbos are driving me crazy!” > > “Not a problem, Mr. Bossman” replied the Evil Smoker. “I quit smoking in there 6 months ago because I was tired of listening to them, too. I’ve just been waiting for them to notice.” If that’s true, then that’s hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/95 "2010-05-27T16:58:17Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > If that’s true, then that’s hysterical. Absolutely, swear-to-Og, cross-my-heart true. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/96 "2010-05-27T18:26:32Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > Absolutely, swear-to-Og, cross-my-heart true. So he stunk up the place so bad they could smell it six months later? Hee-larious! ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/97 "2010-05-27T18:48:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So he stunk up the place so bad they could smell it six months later? > Hee-larious! Ah, no. No one else in the entire department ever smelled anything in their office, which was several offices away from that of the Evil Smoker. People in the intervening offices couldn’t smell the cigarette smoke (smokeless ashtray + fan, etc.). And yet they insisted the entire time that they could tell exactly when she was smoking in her office, something that was obviously disproved when they didn’t realize she’d stopped. I also didn’t mention the trash-burning incinerator that burned medical waste twice-weekly outside their window. They had no problem with that. Just the imaginary cigarette smoke. They were just non-smoking-fanatic bitches who’d found something to whine about and wouldn’t let go. Sorry I wasn’t explicit enough for you. :rolleyes: Note to self: really, quit reading. Why do you do this? You know better. You said you wouldn’t. Just stop already. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/98 "2010-05-27T19:01:16Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > Ah, no. No one else in the entire department ever smelled anything in their office, which was several offices away from that of the Evil Smoker. People in the intervening offices couldn’t smell the cigarette smoke (smokeless ashtray + fan, etc.). And yet they insisted the entire time that they could tell exactly when she was smoking in her office, something that was obviously disproved when they didn’t realize she’d stopped. > > I also didn’t mention the trash-burning incinerator that burned medical waste twice-weekly outside their window. They had no problem with that. Just the imaginary cigarette smoke. > > They were just non-smoking-fanatic bitches who’d found something to whine about and wouldn’t let go. Sorry I wasn’t explicit enough for you. Maybe _she_ didn’t realize she still stank of cigarette smoke when she was in the office(a problem a high percentage of smokers have is that they get used to the smell.) I have no problem sorting out smokers from non-smokers in the office because it is in their clothes and on their breath. Of course the non-smokers would be more sensitive to the situation because their sense of smell hasn’t been burned away. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/99 "2010-05-27T19:34:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Maybe _she_ didn’t realize she still stank of cigarette smoke when she was in the office(a problem a high percentage of smokers have is that they get used to the smell.) I have no problem sorting out smokers from non-smokers in the office because it is in their clothes and on their breath. Of course the non-smokers would be more sensitive to the situation because their sense of smell hasn’t been burned away. But they weren’t complaining about _her_ smelling. They were specifically complaining that they could tell, while they were in their office and she was in her office, with all intervening doors closed, and so on and so on, each and every time she lit a cigarette. That no one else in the entire department of nonsmokers could smell. They were also generally known as whiny bitches, which is why no one in the department really cared. Or, of course, it could be that the EVVVVIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS of smoking had overtaken the entire non-smoking population of the department, except for these two brave souls, who were righteously standing up for Truth, Freedom, and The American Way. Good great gods above, below, inbetween and nonexistent - it’s pathetic the lengths some people will go to in their insistence that ALL SMOKERS ARE EVIL and ALL NONSMOKERS ARE ABUSED BY EVIL SMOKERS, now innit? Thanks for being so helpful in making that point for me. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709/100 "2010-05-27T19:38:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I really can’t think of any. I buy local, use public transportation, support local and national free speech issues etc. Great, and to some extent I agree with you, and wish I never started smoking. And I apologize if my smoking ever caused you harm. I don;t know what you mean by cleaner air though, as a right. Cleaner than what? I doubt cigarette smoke is a major pollutant outside of a small area. If smokers are polite enough to stay a reasonable distance from other people, and out of posted no smoking zones, what more do you want? If you told me smoking made you ill, and you politely asked me to move, I think I would. I’d be less inclined if you were free to move but didn’t. But unless you are hunter gatherer of some kind, or making your postings on papyrus with vegetable ink, your probably using up resources too, like everyone else. You may use less than some, and that should be encouraged. I didn’t get the impression that you think that makes you morally superior, but some people do think that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-asking-smokers-not-to/540709.md?page=6)