# On Bush, Lies, and Nostalgia: The Little Lie That Couldn't Quite! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428 "2003-12-17T00:27:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/21 "2003-12-17T13:00:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*How many times does the President have to win this war before you quit bringing up his little faux pas about why we went to Iraq? \*\* Until he raises up all the dead, returns all the money, and actually does something about al Qaeda for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/22 "2003-12-17T14:32:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*To be fair, the CIA never mentions the capacity to strike the US with either set of UAVs. \*\* From the cite: "Iraq maintains a small missile force and several development programs, including for a UAV probably intended to deliver biological warfare agent. \ Baghdad’s UAVs could threaten Iraq’s neighbors, U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf, and if brought close to, or into, the United States, the U.S. Homeland." Scroll about halfway down, some of it is italicized. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/23 "2003-12-17T15:30:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Note with appropriate glee “directed questions to the Dept of Defense” who “had no comment”. Well, I rather doubt the Defense Department is in the habit of elaborating to reporters the specifics of “classified briefings.” If it’s “glee” that you feel over this, then I can only agree; I’m happy, too, that the DOD refuses to divulge classified material to the Florida newspapers. And some questions: Is the esteemed Senator Nelson in the frequent habit of revealing information obtained in a classified briefing to the press? What’s that all about? Also, does this Florida newspaper often publish uncorroborated stories? Because that’s all they’ve got - one statement from one Senator and he won’t even give them enough information to be able to verify his assertions. And on a lighter note: > [@](#): > > Clinton was a fucking ham and egger. See? We told ya the man was unqualified for the position. I’d also comment that you guys must have been sadly mistaken when, during Bush’s campaign, you labeled him an imbecile. He appears extremely capable of maintaining a rather elaborate web of lies and subterfuge. Surely no simpleton would be able to do maintain such a complex cover for such a complex deceit perpetrated by Rummy and Rove. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/24 "2003-12-17T15:58:03Z")
I think we all know that calling information “classified”, or something similar, can be a useful way to hide total bullshit from the light of day. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/25 "2003-12-17T16:13:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*UncleBeer said: \*If it’s “glee” that you feel over this, then I can only agree; I’m happy, too, that the DOD refuses to divulge classified material to the Florida newspapers. You’d probably be real happy wearing earplugs and a bag over your head then. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/26 "2003-12-17T16:44:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*I think we all know that calling information “classified”, or something similar, can be a useful way to hide total bullshit from the light of day. \*\* Can we get Elucidator’s posts classified? ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/27 "2003-12-17T17:05:31Z")
lies make the baby Jesus cry ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/28 "2003-12-17T17:32:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I think we all know that calling information “classified”, or something similar, can be a useful way to hide total bullshit from the light of day. I’m well aware of that. And of Nixon’s cries of “national security” & “executive privilege,” and the utter bullshit they were. I’m also of the opinion that what you suggest may indeed be the case in this specific incident. However, if the recipient of material which has been designated by a legitimate source as “classified,” is permitted to re-evaluate that designation and distribute the material as he sees fit, it kinda destroys the whole system. If a person believes that material designated “classified” by the source, should enjoy a wider distribution and even public dissemination, there are legal avenues which may be pursued. And blabbing it to the press ain’t one of 'em. Expediency isn’t another. Following the duly constituted laws and regulations can only lend credence to a person’s allegations. Failure to do so detracts from his veracity and may actually be criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/29 "2003-12-17T17:35:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*Surely no simpleton would be able to do maintain such a complex cover for such a complex deceit perpetrated by Rummy and Rove. \*\* Sure he would, because they also claim that most of the country is comprised of complete morons. It’s almost logical. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/30 "2003-12-17T18:02:34Z")
Not only did the White House (kinda miss Ari Fleischer, huh?) pass all that on as bald-faced facts, but certain habitual posters here, in this very citadel of ignorance-fighting, believed every single bit of it too - and derided anyone in GD who showed any skepticism about it. Some of them are still there, too. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/31 "2003-12-17T18:20:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vibrotronica \* > \*\*lies make the baby Jesus cry \*\* stick a pacifier in the Prince of Peace ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/32 "2003-12-17T18:48:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Not only did the White House (kinda miss Ari Fleischer, huh?) pass all that on as bald-faced facts, but certain habitual posters here, in this very citadel of ignorance-fighting, believed every single bit of it too - and derided anyone in GD who showed any skepticism about it. Some of them are still there, too. \*\* Well, it depends what you’re being skeptical of. If you were being skeptical that the Iraqis actually had the existing hardware, then you were probably justified. If you were skeptical that they could build it, then probably not. Here’s an interesting link for the do-it-yourselfer… [http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/cruise.shtml](http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/cruise.shtml) . ``` Note that Elucidator has, in the past, mis-characterized the claim as being that the Iraqis had intercontinental delivery capabilities. In fact, the concern was a fairly short range delivery based on a off-shore vessel -- something not far beyond the capabilities of your average RC hobbyist. ``` Realistically, though, if the concern is an attack on the US with biological or chemical weapons, then who cares about UAVs when we have a perfectly serviceable postal system and will rent Cessnas to anyone with a current license? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/33 "2003-12-17T19:20:13Z")
Now, friend, the loud insistence all along was that they _did_ have the stuff, launchable within 45 minutes. That had to be the claim to uphold the urgency of invading Iraq right then - if the call to action was that they might be a risk to us someday, well, you know how well that one works. **elucidator** is exaggerating the claim for literary effect, yes, but only slightly. The attempt by the warmongers to claim that a duct-taped model airplane is part of the package of weapons of destruction, mass or otherwise, is the fabrication. Lay blame where it’s due. Accept responsibility for spreading simple lies if that’s what you did. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/34 "2003-12-17T19:28:19Z")
I get in a model airplane mood around Christmas so it’s only fair to say that it can be done: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3145577.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3145577.stm) Maynard Hill has long been my god. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/35 "2003-12-17T20:06:01Z")
> [@](#): > > elucidator is exaggerating the claim for literary effect, yes, but only slightly. In other words, lying. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/36 "2003-12-17T20:16:17Z")
Here ya go, **elucidator**! Now you can dance – yep, that’s right, _dance_ – to the wonderfully creative and nostalgic tunes of [**Dubya & The Fearmongers Greatest Hits!**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5115.htm) From the same people that brought you “Shrinking Freedom,” “Bring Them On!” and that all-time great, the unforgettable, “See No Boobies on The Statue”! Just in time for the holydays, _run_ don’t walk to get your copy! Act now, supplies are going fast! ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/37 "2003-12-17T20:19:06Z")
“THIS is the operative statement. All previous statements are inoperative.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/38 "2003-12-17T20:21:36Z")
Miss the part about “literary effect”, Beer? Oh, wait - you were looking for a way to dismiss all criticism of your idols, or perhaps to avoid facing your own gullibility, weren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/39 "2003-12-17T20:32:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MsRobyn \* > \*\ ***'luce** , honey, I’m gonna leave Airman and move in with you. … \*\* Made my day, darlin’. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428/40 "2003-12-17T20:37:44Z")
Another exaggeration for literary effect (from **SimonX** ’s posted transcript of the press conference): > [@](#): > > We gave Saddam Hussein plenty of time to heed the demands of the world, and he chose defiance. He did. He said, forget it, I don’t care what the United Nations has said over a decade; I don’t care about all the resolutions passed. He chose defiance; we acted. And I acted because I – I repeat – I have a duty to protect this country. And I will continue to protect the country, so long as I’m the President of the United States. Considering he had no WMDs, cooperated with the inspectors, and destroyed what he was told to destroy when he was told to, the above is a complete fabrication. But it’s been repeated so many times that it really doesn’t matter anymore. Reminds me of a review of a Donna Summer record, where the reviewer observed that she says, breathily, “Come, come, come into my arms.” By the time she says “into my arms”, well, it just doesn’t matter anymore. But I’ll just repeat the truth: Scott Ritter was right. Can’t say that often enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-bush-lies-and-nostalgia-the-little-lie-that-couldnt-quite/219428.md?page=3)