# on cousins once-removed:
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [May 28, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585 "2011-05-28T17:51:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@wei\_ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wei_ji)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585/1 "2011-05-28T17:51:54Z")
“Strictly speaking,” then, if my first cousin’s daughter, Kari, is my first-cousin-once-removed, then what am I to her? Can this term flow both ways, or does it require statement one-way due to ownership of the primary relationship?
–Can Kari say, accurately, that I’m HER “first cousin once-removed?” After all, I’m the one who owns the “first cousin” relationship with her mother: hence the “once-removed” status that descends from it refers to her specifically as the next generation down the line.
–She might state this as: “I’m Wei Ji’s first-cousin-once-removed,” but I don’t see how she could say “Wei Ji is my first-cousin-once-removed,” though linguistic convenience would dictate that she do just that. Usually, I introduce Kari thus: “This is my cousin Kathleen’s daughter, Kari.”
–I wonder how aboriginals in Australia handle this issue, given their notoriously complex relationship awareness?
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LINK TO COLUMN: [What’s the term for your cousin’s children? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/516/whats-the-term-for-your-cousins-children)
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### Author:  [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585/2 "2011-05-28T23:40:10Z")
> [@wei\_ji](#):
>
> “Strictly speaking,” then, if my first cousin’s daughter, Kari, is my first-cousin-once-removed, then what am I to her? Can this term flow both ways, or does it require statement one-way due to ownership of the primary relationship?
First cousin once removed, goes both ways.
> [@](#):
>
> –Can Kari say, accurately, that I’m HER “first cousin once-removed?” After all, I’m the one who owns the “first cousin” relationship with her mother: hence the “once-removed” status that descends from it refers to her specifically as the next generation down the line.
Yes.
> [@](#):
>
> –She might state this as: “I’m Wei Ji’s first-cousin-once-removed,” but I don’t see how she could say “Wei Ji is my first-cousin-once-removed,” though linguistic convenience would dictate that she do just that.
Why not? That’s what is is. That’s how I refer to mine.
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### Author:  [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585/3 "2011-05-29T21:41:55Z")
Different languages have different rules. In Latin, there are two different words for “father’s brother” and “mother’s brother”. And in English, only a few centuries ago, “cousin” meant only “relative”, and “-in-law” was completely optional. (The 17th-century novel _Love Letters between a Nobleman and his Sister_ is only about adultery.)
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### Author:  [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585/4 "2011-05-30T17:35:59Z")
> [@wei\_ji](#):
>
> –Can Kari say, accurately, that I’m HER “first cousin once-removed?”
Removal works in both generational directions. Your first cousin’s child and your second cousin’s parent (or your parent’s first cousin) are both your first cousins once-removed. The number of “removes” refers to the absolute value of the difference between your generational numbers.
Powers &8^]
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### Author:  [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585/5 "2011-05-30T18:18:46Z")
I typically call my mother’s first cousins (she has over twenty, down from thirty-one) “Uncle” or “Aunt” as appropriate. It’s not correct, but easier than “Cousin-once-removed”, which is correct.
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### Author:  [@wei\_ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wei_ji)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585/6 "2011-06-01T21:53:42Z")
> [@Powers](#):
>
> Removal works in both generational directions. Your first cousin’s child and your second cousin’s parent (or your parent’s first cousin) are both your first cousins once-removed. The number of “removes” refers to the absolute value of the difference between your generational numbers.
> Powers &8^]
Ok, that’s interesting. So, my father’s Canadian first cousin would be my own first cousin once removed, just as I am his first cousin once removed (and his children would be my 2nd cousins). It’s a good thing we didn’t add gender to it, like “uncle, nephew and niece.”
I guess I’m just surprised that it seems potentially more complicated than it is in practical use. Thanks for the clarification and comments.
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### Author:  [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-cousins-once-removed/583585/7 "2011-06-06T00:59:54Z")
“Nth cousin” indicates how far back is the nearest common ancestor. The number is the same if you and your cousin are the same number of generations from the ancestor. If you are different generations, the number will be different.
If you and your cousin are different generations, “N times removed” indicates how many generations apart you are.
Descendants of yourself:
son
grandson
great grandson
great-great grandson
etc.
Descendants of your parent:
sibling
nephew
grandnephew
great grandnephew
great-great grandnephew
etc.
Descendants of your grandparent:
uncle
first cousin
first cousin once removed
first cousin twice removed
first cousin thrice removed
etc.
Descendants of your great grandparent:
granduncle
2nd cousin once removed
2nd cousin
2nd cousin once removed
2nd cousin twice removed
etc.
Descendants of your great-great grandparent:
great granduncle
3rd cousin twice removed
3rd cousin once removed
3rd cousin
3rd cousin once removed
3rd cousin twice removed
etc
The article under “Genealogy” in _Encyclopedia Americana_ has a nice tree diagram that makes this much easier to remember.