# On defending one's patent by a hammer to the kneecaps **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953 "2012-10-17T01:25:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/41 "2012-10-18T18:06:22Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What crime is transmitting at 100Mhz? It is not the same. If your neighbor has a window that breaks when you shine a light on it then he has a faulty window. Shining a light is not throwing a brick. The airwaves are already regulated and unless Graple violated those regulations they aren’t responsible for the damage their transmissions cause in someone’s faulty product. Intent matters. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/42 "2012-10-18T18:15:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What crime is transmitting at 100Mhz? It is not the same. If your neighbor has a window that breaks when you shine a light on it then he has a faulty window. Shining a light is not throwing a brick. The airwaves are already regulated and unless Graple violated those regulations they aren’t responsible for the damage their transmissions cause in someone’s faulty product. Samhummed and its customers are going to take Graple to court because they have a factual case that Graple did broadcast the signal that bricked all the Samhummed devices. At the hearing, Graple can tell the truth and admit it broadcast the signal with the intent of destroying all those Samhummed devices. Or Graple can choose to lengthen its list of crimes by committing perjury and saying it had some other reason for broadcasting that signal and had no idea it would destroy anything. In which case, Graple needs to come up with some plausible sounding reason why it chose to broadcast a signal like this and it needs to come up with a plausible explanation of how it was unaware of how this signal would effect devices like the ones it manufactures. I’m thinking Graple’s going to have a hard time coming up with excuses a judge and jury’s going to find reasonable. But even if they manage that, they can still be found liable for causing unintended damages. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/43 "2012-10-18T18:22:28Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > General tort question. Can someone sue for damages if they are committing an illegal act? > So if Samhummad devices break because they were stealing the patent then do they have any cause? Would they even have any standing if the devices in question were owned by the customers and not leased? e.g. Jim Bob would have to sue Graple for bricking his equipment? As I’ve said, it wouldn’t have been established yet that Samhummed has committed any illegal acts. Second, even if Graple does establish it was wronged by Samhummed, it’s still only entitled to legal remedies. It’s not entitled to commit a revenge crime against Samhummed. When all the legalities are settled in this situation, you could end up with Samhummed being found liable for stealing Graple’s products and Graple being held liable for breaking Samhummed’s products. Both of them committed illegal acts. Third, you raised the issue that Samhummed would not be the only parties wronged by Graple’s actions. Samhummed’s customers were not involved in the theft of the Graple property. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/44 "2012-10-18T18:36:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Let’s say you got an exact duplicate of your neighbor’s window and discovered that its design meant a pulsed 100hz tone at 85db would cause it to crack. So, you set up a well designed speaker array, point it at his window and get it to crack. You were quite careful to be within the local regulations regarding noise. > > Does your neighbor have a legitimate beef / case against you? I don’t think so. And in this case, as others have brought up, there’s a clean hands issue. In an actual case, my neighbor cut down trees that blocked the sun on my house. This caused my summer air conditioning bills to go up and for me to oil the back of the house more often. I seriously doubt I could sue him even if he did it on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/45 "2012-10-18T18:50:34Z")
The key question is - what are the implications and terms of service of the broadcast? Here’s another example- let’s say the broadcast is a “time announcement” and suddenly it’s way off - but the Grapple devices don’t have a problem, because they’ve been instructed to adjust the time. If someone relying on that time service were to sue for resulting damages (“my cows exploded because I did not milk them on time”) what’s their recourse? If Samhummed users are piggybacking on a service that is not public, they have no expectation of its reliability. OTOH, if a “kill” signal is deliberately sent knowing it will cause damage, only for that purpose, that’s deliberate interference and actively causing damage. So- motivation becomes important. If you did not promise Samhummed a service, if it fails you have no liability. However, if you actively did something to cause a problem, then you are likely liable. The intermediate “way out” is to change the service to “improve” it for your customers, thus leaving Sam’s club in the dust. "We changed our broadcast format… sorry. We provided updates. " ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/46 "2012-10-21T14:31:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As I’ve said, it wouldn’t have been established yet that Samhummed has committed any illegal acts. That wasn’t the point of the question. If Sumhummed sues Graple for breaking their toys and admits in court (or is caught during the trial) that the toys were broken because they stole Graple patent, would that immediately invalidate the lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/47 "2012-10-21T14:43:10Z")
No, it wouldn’t. One tort doesn’t excuse another. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953/48 "2012-10-21T15:19:25Z")
I don’t see where Grapple is on the hook. " Your honor they stole our technology and stole access to our signal, but apparently they didn’t do a very good job of it. How is it our fault that they are incompetent criminals?" And if Joe-Bob the consumer sues; Grapple moves for a summary judgement as he sued the wrong guy, Grapple did not manufacture his defective equipment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-defending-ones-patent-by-a-hammer-to-the-kneecaps/637953.md?page=2)