# On English Royalty **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2025, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083 "2025-10-18T21:29:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/121 "2025-10-29T20:36:01Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > if they were now the “same” religion, would that help the relations between Eire and Ulster? It would make far far less difference than say brexit did. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/122 "2025-10-30T00:52:57Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Let’s say The Brits and The Pope agree that Anglicanism is really Roman Catholicism Lite. There are a lot of reasons for the Irish to hate the English, but if they were now the “same” religion, would that help the relations between Eire and Ulster? Not in the least. Theological and doctrinal differences play no role at all in Anglo-Irish or internal Irish relations. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/123 "2025-10-30T01:44:38Z")
> [@UDS1](#): > > Theological and doctrinal differences play no role at all in Anglo-Irish or internal Irish relations Birth control and abortion laws were a big deal not a lifetime ago. The Republic of Ireland were one of the last European countries to free up access. The question of Irish reunion still falters on the question of Catholic influence. Perhaps not with so much justification but it remains. Or we can go to the canonical source of truth > **[The Meaning of Life (4/11) Movie CLIP - Protestants and French Ticklers...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBjsFAyiwA%5C)** > > The Meaning of Life movie clips: http://j.mp/15vNO1xBUY THE MOVIE: http://amzn.to/ru1ruRDon't miss the HOTTEST NEW TRAILERS: http://bit.ly/1u2y6prCLIP DESCRI... ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/124 "2025-10-30T01:52:40Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Birth control and abortion laws were a big deal not a lifetime ago. The Republic of Ireland were one of the last European countries to free up access. But that wasn’t an issue as between the Republic and Northern Ireland. Social attitudes in Northern Ireland were, if anything, more restrictive than in the Republic, and NI didn’t get legal abortion until well after the Republic. > [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > The question of Irish reunion still falters on the question of Catholic influence. It really doesn’t. (_Historically_, fears about Catholic influence were a big deal, and the partition of Ireland in the early twentieth century was brought about by a campaign that was quite openly sectarian. (“You can’t allow Protestant Ulstermen to be subject to the jurisiction of a government and parliament that would probably have a majority of Catholics in it.”) Overt sectarianism of that kind played quite well in Britain in those days. But these days the picture is very different. Anybody arguing that the Republic is church-dominated would be laughed at by small children in the street, and nobody defending the union ever uses the word “Catholic” because overt sectarianism, these days, is not a good look. Unionists defend their position, not on the basis that they are Protestant, but on the basis that they are British. And, similarly, Nationalists never appeal to Catholicism, but to Irishness.) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/125 "2025-10-30T02:38:51Z")
> [@UDS1](#): > > It really doesn’t. > > (_Historically_, fears about Catholic influence were a big deal Yeah this. The question of Irish unification is entirely a political one in 2025. It is “sectarian” not in the literal sense of a conflict between religious sects. It is a conflict between two communities that have the labels “Protestant” and “Catholic”. The actual religious beliefs of Catholics and Protestants have nothing to do with it ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/126 "2025-10-30T03:25:37Z")
> [@UDS1](#): > > Unionists defend their position, not on the basis that they are Protestant, but on the basis that they are British. And, similarly, Nationalists never appeal to Catholicism, but to Irishness. Yeah, this has probably always been the reality. Catholic versus Protestant have been proxies in a lot of places for what eventually is a different divide. Where I live (Australia) the undercurrent of class based on the divide lasted a lot longer than people like to admit, and has not fully gone away. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/127 "2025-10-30T08:32:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And folks fall over themselves to somehow contort current law to deliver a definitive answer when instead the most likely answer is “The law will be modified (or reinterpreted) at the time to meet the novel circumstances. And done in whatever way is politically doable / expedient at the time. Without knowing that future political context we can’t say much more.” Japan has a problem with now many males in the imperial family. Females are not allowed to succeed, and at one point there was a crisis. The current emperor was still the crown prince and only had a daughter. His younger brother only had two daughters as well. It looked like a crisis was developing, and there was talk of changing the law to allow female empresses. Younger brother was able to have one more child, a male and crisis averted. I don’t know how the UK is, but in Japan, not that many deeply care about the imperial family, but ones who care really care. There’s no reason to cause controversy before it’s necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/128 "2025-10-30T10:03:29Z")
The Japanese Royal Family has been around for 1500 years. Why aren’t there dozens and dozens of royal cousins, like the Windsors have? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/129 "2025-10-30T10:45:33Z")
After WWII and concerned about keeping control over the country, the American GHQ forced a number of changes to the imperial family and had all these 11 collateral branches of families removed, reduced them to commoners status. Only the offspring of Hirohito’s father and the sons’ lines were allowed to retain imperial status. Females retain imperial status only until they marry, and then become commoners. Some conservatives suggested bringing back some of the collateral branches, while many people wanted the law changed to allow the popular daughter of the current emperor (crown prince at the time of the debate) to be in line. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/130 "2025-10-30T10:58:22Z")
And there are only three males in line: The younger brother of the emperor. The younger brother’s son, (age 19?) The remaining uncle of Hirohito (age 90?) So, while they kicked the can down the street, we’ll probably see the debate again. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/131 "2025-10-30T11:29:57Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The remaining uncle of Hirohito (age 90?) The Hirohito who was born in 1901? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/132 "2025-10-30T11:31:02Z")
Oops, second son of Hirohito. I normally think in Japanese names. Hirohito is called Emperor Showa. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/133 "2025-10-30T11:46:38Z")
Oops, second son of the Hiroshito. [Masahito, Prince Hitachi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masahito,_Prince_Hitachi). Uncle of the current emperor. > **[File:Japanese Imperial Family Tree December 2024.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_Imperial_Family_Tree_December_2024.jpg)** > > English ∙ español ∙ 日本語 ∙ 한국어 ∙ македонски ∙ русский ∙ português ∙ slovenščina ∙ svenska ∙ Tiếng Việt ∙ 简体中文‎ ∙ 繁體中文‎ ∙ العربية ∙ +/− > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. There are no pages that use this file. I normally think in Japanese names. The current emperor is always called the emperor and then given a posthonoumus name as Emperor (Era name) Hirohito is called Emperor Showa. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/134 "2025-10-30T12:52:36Z")
I’m certainly not an expert on the Japanese law of succession, but my interpretation of [this English translation of the Imperial Household Law](https://www.kunaicho.go.jp/e-kunaicho/hourei-01.html) is that succession is not formally restricted to descendants of Hirohito (Showa) or Hirohito’s father, the way the British succession is formally restricted to descendants of Electress Sophia. If there are no male heirs, you go to the next branch of the imperial family that’s nearest in lineage, until you find a male. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/135 "2025-10-30T13:17:15Z")
I think the issue, as @TokyoBayer lays it out, is that the “imperial family” has very few “branches” now, since many were “trimmed” in the aftermath of WWII. The “imperial family” doesn’t necessarily expand to encompass more people if the current line(s) of male heirs from Hirohito and his father’s sons die off. Like, if the “imperial family” is limited to certain descendants of Hirohito’s father, then it might as well be a “descendants of Empress Sophia” situation. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/136 "2025-10-30T14:24:17Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > The “imperial family” doesn’t necessarily expand to encompass more people if the current line(s) of male heirs from Hirohito and his father’s sons die off. [Yes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_House_of_Japan). > After the removal of [11 collateral branches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cke "Ōke") from the imperial house in October 1947, the official membership of the imperial family has effectively been limited to the male-line descendants of the [Emperor Taishō](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Taish%C5%8D "Emperor Taishō"), excluding females who married outside the imperial family and their descendants.[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_House_of_Japan#cite_note-nip-21) Emperor Taisho is the father of Hirohito’s (Emperor Showa). I had thought that the decision to remove the other branches was part of the constitution, but it looks like it was [a decision](https://web.archive.org/web/20220620174249/https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c06133/) made by the government. I remember reading that this was under the pressure by GHQ, but don’t see cite for that. > ## A Reduced Imperial Family > > The formal decision to remove 51 imperial family members in 11 collateral branches, including 26 men in line to the throne, came at a meeting in October 1947. Prime Minister Katayama Tetsu noted that there was no need for concern about the succession at that time. After the reduction, there would still be Emperor Shōwa’s two sons, including the future Emperor Akihito, his three younger brothers, and one nephew. At the end of the war, a lot of people in the US government and in the Allies wanted Hirohito to be tried as a war criminal and to eliminate the imperial family. Others in the government saw that keeping the emperior was a way to control the population, something that MacArthur strongly believed. However, they wanted to make sure they could control the emperor so they pressured for the removal of the collateral branches. They also heavily taxed the land and holdings of the imperial family and these former members, and a lot of land was sold off. The Prince Hotels were named because the original ones were located on former imperial land. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/137 "2025-10-30T14:30:10Z")
Can you imagine getting this phone call, “Your 4th cousin twice removed just died so you’re the new emperor.” Wasn’t there a British peerage that passed to a similarly distant relative as the closest male heir? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/138 "2025-10-30T14:33:36Z")
John Goodman starred in a [movie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Ralph) with a plot sort of like that. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/139 "2025-10-30T17:46:01Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Can you imagine getting this phone call, “Your 4th cousin twice removed just died so you’re the new emperor.” It would hardly come as a surprise since the rules of succession are known in advance, so the Emperor’s fourth cousin twice removed would already be well aware that he’s the next in line. A true surprise could only happen if a major disaster wiped out not only the incumbent but also an entire range of people who occupied the first few slots in the line of succession. That’s indeed a _King Ralph_-style scenario. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083/140 "2025-10-30T17:59:57Z")
This was the premise of Downton Abbey. The Earl only had daughters so a young cousin was due to inherit. That guy died on the Titanic so a more distant cousin got the surprise announcement. He was a lawyer who knew that he had distant relations who were noble but no idea how close he was to the line of succession. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-english-royalty/1024083.md?page=8)