# On God, His/Her/Its Nonexistence, and Bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 26, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240 "2005-04-26T20:31:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/141 "2005-05-02T08:34:04Z")
**Cosmosdan** , **Hoodoo Ulove** : You appear to be on your way here. Hope you like poetry! > **[Reality](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=36792)** > > QuickSilver No, I’m afraid not. The chance is zero. As humans, our consciousness is a closed reference frame. We can “manage” subjectivity only. Descartes attempted to use a reason epistemology to prove his own existence, and then later (in... ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/142 "2005-05-02T13:21:33Z")
> [@matt](#): > > **Cosmosdan** , **Hoodoo Ulove** : > > You appear to be on your way here. Hope you like poetry! > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=36792](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=36792) Thanks for the link. That’s awesome. My head is spinning. But it’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/143 "2005-05-02T15:32:31Z")
Thanks, **Matt**! It’s always great to have your thoughts reduced to cliche. Gotta up my game. **Dan** , I was referring to any and all of my remarks. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/144 "2005-05-03T11:15:42Z")
[QUOTE=Hoodoo Ulove] So if we believe that what is, is, then we believe in God?[/QUOTE There are many interpretations to the word “god” It has many meanings to different people,To me it just means the totality of what is, Not “a” being to worship. Science has proven that we are made of Star Stuff… The word god is a noun(Person ,place or thing) In Genesis God tells Moses I am what is. If God is “A” being he would have to have a place in which to exist first, since it is said he had no beginng than neither did the Place where he is. If he is being than God can be said to be "Being"or in other words Existance. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/145 "2005-05-03T13:49:37Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Science has proven that we are made of Star Stuff… > Monavis What science, where, when? My objection to statements like this is that that it really means , our latest theory based on what we believe or think we know at this point. That is a long way from proven. As I see it, we have barely scratched the surface of available knowledge and understanding. Terms like 'we know" and “proven” seem way to absolute to be used as often as they are. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/146 "2005-05-03T15:45:51Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > There are many interpretations to the word “god” It has many meanings to different people,To me it just means the totality of what is, Not “a” being to worship. But since we all believe in the totality of what is, doesn’t this leave “believing in god” as empty of all content? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/147 "2005-05-03T15:51:49Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > But since we all believe in the totality of what is, doesn’t this leave “believing in god” as empty of all content? It does if you’re an existentialist. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/148 "2005-05-03T16:23:45Z")
> [@Lib](#): > > It does if you’re an existentialist. And doesn’t if . . . what? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/149 "2005-05-03T18:40:37Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > And doesn’t if . . . what? If you’re an essentialist, essence precedes existence. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/150 "2005-05-03T19:03:10Z")
**Liberal** , I’m trying to get this. **Monavis** says the existent is God. I say merely naming the existent God tells us nothing. You say essence precedes existence. How does your statement contradict mine? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/151 "2005-05-03T19:44:20Z")
I’m not trying to contradict you; in fact, I’m agreeing with you. A pantheist or panentheist is necessarily an existentialist. But if essence precedes existence, then God is _more than_ what is. Existence is merely a trivial state. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/152 "2005-05-03T20:14:43Z")
**Panentheist** A new word for me. Panentheism the belief that the Divine is present in everything and also extends beyond and is greater than the universe You hold the second and deny the first? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/153 "2005-05-03T20:23:29Z")
You mean pantheism and panentheism? I don’t hold either of them. I’m a theist. And an essentialist. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/154 "2005-05-03T21:35:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You mean pantheism and panentheism? Sorry for the lack of clarity. I meant First: The divine is present in everything. Second: The Divine extends beyond and is greater than the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/155 "2005-05-04T11:39:30Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Sorry for the lack of clarity. I meant > > First: The divine is present in everything. I don’t like the word “in”. It connotes containment. Let’s say that if we have length, width, and depth, the Divine is kata. > [@](#): > > Second: The Divine extends beyond and is greater than the universe. I think that’s true by the definition of supernatural. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/156 "2005-05-04T11:46:49Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > So if we believe that what is, is, then we believe in God? The word God, has many meanings to different people. I do not believe the word means a being to worship. If God Is “a” being then it would not be possible for God to be everywhere at once, If God is Being (existance) then all that exists is a part of what is called God. as I stated before, in another time, It is maybe a poor anology, but to me the word is like a large ocean, it is all water, take out a drop and the drop is water. The whole is greater than its parts, So the quote in genesis when Moses asked who are you ,his answer was"I am what is. There is a religion in India, that has a word, when they greet you that means:I see the God in you. Science has proven that we are all made of star stuff. and everything is made up of atoms and molecules Just different amounts of DNA,like a river, the blood that runs through our veins is different than the day before. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/157 "2005-05-04T12:07:56Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > **Liberal** , I’m trying to get this. > **Monavis** says the existent is God. > I say merely naming the existent God tells us nothing. > You say essence precedes existence. > How does your statement contradict mine? My point is that to look at God as “a” being it would mean God would have to have a place to be;even if one meant space. But if the word, God, (as a religious man looks at the word) would mean a supreme being who created all things, place would have to proced him, unless he was also place, other wise who would have created the place, or space of where he is? We can know that we exist,we can see and communicate with each other and others can also see us. If we are a part of a greater whole (existance )than in that sense we can say God exists because God is a word. It can be written and seen by all even though it is spelled differently in other languages. I do not believe there is “A” being looking over us and is supernatural. The old adage, God helps them that help themselves fits fine with me. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/158 "2005-05-04T14:22:50Z")
**Monavis** , you have an admirably poetic way of expressing yourself. I think I’m being a bit of a jerk in responding in a literalist fashion. I don’t think we really disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/159 "2005-05-04T15:36:42Z")
Monavis, if a single being exists kata-wise, then it can exist everywhere in our universe at once. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240/160 "2005-05-04T16:07:19Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I don’t like the word “in”. It connotes containment. Let’s say that if we have length, width, and depth, the Divine is kata. > . please explain. What do you mean by Kata? Where does the term come from? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-god-his-her-its-nonexistence-and-bullshit/301240.md?page=9)