# On Hetero-normative Dating: The Woman Makes the First Move **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 28, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227 "2019-06-28T17:25:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/61 "2019-07-06T08:41:47Z")
Thinkinking quickly back on my romantic life, it sure seems that all the women I had serious relationships with (say 2 years at least) were the ones who made the first move. When I initiated things, the relationship didn’t last long. So, yeah, the OP’s theory seems to hold up for me. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/62 "2019-07-06T12:02:43Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Too true. I lived in an all girls dorm through college and have had two jobs with mostly female coworkers, and the only time I’ve ever heard women say “I can’t believe he just gave up!” is in TV shows and movies. I have a friend I’ve known since college. She was married a few years after college, but it didn’t last very long. I don’t recall how the topic came up, but she told me afterwards that she had been the one to ask for the divorce. I remembered her telling me once before that she wished her husband had been more ambitious, dynamic, proactive (I don’t know her exact words, probably not “proactive”, but along those lines). I asked her if she had really wanted her husband to go along with her request for a divorce, or if she secretly wanted him to be more assertive, to push back against the idea, and to work to stay together. She admitted that she would have preferred the latter. I don’t think people always play these kinds of games in relationships deliberately, or even consciously. We’re human beings, I’m not sure any of us has perfect knowledge and forethought of why we do the things we do. There are cultural messages that tell women not to act too interested in a guy. Being hard-to-get is a way to find out if a suitor is really interested, and how much effort he’ll put into being with her. And it’s a way to distance herself from the decision and protect her feelings if it ends badly. That doesn’t mean they admit to acting hard-to-get afterwards, even to themselves. That sort of thought process isn’t exclusive to women. Guys are susceptible to cultural models of how to behave, that are just as irrational and unjustifiable. I’m sure I do them too. We’re human beings; we act and then our brain says “I meant to do that.” Doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/63 "2019-07-06T13:54:37Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Not sure how social anxiety would prevent a guy from following either Moriarty’s or EdelweissPirate’s advice not to bother women who aren’t interested. I get being so paralyzed by fear you can’t approach anyone ever, but surely having some guidance as to which women are less likely to reject you only helps. Also, you know that social anxiety is not just a guy thing, right? As nervous as it makes you to interact with strangers, imagine you woke up one day in a pretty girl’s body and suddenly all these much larger, older men won’t leave you alone and you have no idea how to handle it. That’s puberty for a lot of girls, and nobody’s giving them lessons, either. I’ve never really approached a woman in my life because of it, and I’ve accidentally (and sometimes purposely, mostly due to fear, not disinterest) rejected quite a few in my younger years. These days I’m more outgoing but apparently much less attractive. I still think it is solid advice, though. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/64 "2019-07-07T03:33:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > To echo what \*\*Cheesesteak \*\*said, it’s really time for society to reconsider this whole subtlety thing in light of #MeToo and just be more overt. Both genders are put at risk and danger by playing this maybe-no-means-yes-and-maybe-it-doesn’t-mean-yes game. Yes, I know, blatant overt “yes” and “no” may be unromantic, but safety and clarity ought to override whatever added romance may be had by playing games. I agree with you in theory, but not only can this be “unromantic” but also unattractive and a turn off for many people. So that’s part of why the “games” exist. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/65 "2019-07-07T05:49:30Z")
I was pretty clueless, but fortunately, I had a female friend who clued me in on signs to watch for to see if they are interested or not. Obviously, each woman is different, but it’s not terribly difficult to tell if there is some sort of interest or not. One of these is not like the other: > [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > There’s pleny of interesting points in your post but I want to make it clear that I don’t blame her for anything, and I don’t accuse her playing games. > [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > Seriously, I’m too old for this kind s\*\*\*. Everything she does is consistent with her just wanting to be friends with you and being a more flirty than you are used to. See this: > [@msmith537](#): > > Or, conversely, a woman might just be naturally friendly and flirty, but that doesn’t mean she wants to sleep with you. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/66 "2019-07-07T08:36:54Z")
Please note that I wrote that I was “too old for this kind of s\*\*\*”, NOT “her s\*\*\*”. What I meant was going back to my teenage years, all those playground uncertainties. Just to make it clear once more : I’m not blaming her at all. She’s indeed much more affectionate than I’m used to at the workplace, and she said things that I saw as pretty much open invitations. As you wrote : > [@](#): > > it’s not terribly difficult to tell if there is some sort of interest or not Perhaps I was wrong, though I still have a hard time interpreting them otherwise. In spite of this, I was very careful not to cross any boundaries or look too pushy (the last seen I wanted was for her to see me as “that creepy guy”). But it doesn’t matter. It’s obviously not going the way I thought, so I’ll back off. And that’s fine. I have a lot of respect for her and that’s not going to change. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/67 "2019-07-10T01:01:45Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > It came kind of close to happening to me once. Someone told me that a woman we both knew wanted me to ask her out. I hadn’t thought about it, but I’d had several conversations with her and she was fairly attractive (plus I did enjoy talking with her). I called her up, and she said “I don’t know”. The next day our mutual friend wanted to know if I asked her out, and I told him what he said. I also said that I didn’t think she was really very interested, so I was going to drop it. Then I hear “she wants to be pursued.” I wasn’t suggesting that it never happens - with about [10% of people](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3105841/) having personality disorders of course it does - just agreeing with **Helena330** that it’s way, way less likely than a woman giving off “go away” vibes genuinely wanting you to leave her alone. I’d personally lay the odds that a woman seeming like she’s not interested in interacting with someone really not being interested at say 85% of the time, with a portion of the other 15% of the time her being preoccupied and therefore oblivious to (and unbothered by) the guy’s attempts to get her attention in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227/68 "2019-07-10T01:31:15Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I wasn’t suggesting that it never happens - with about [10% of people](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3105841/) having personality disorders of course it does - just agreeing with **Helena330** that it’s way, way less likely than a woman giving off “go away” vibes genuinely wanting you to leave her alone. > > I’d personally lay the odds that a woman seeming like she’s not interested in interacting with someone really not being interested at say 85% of the time, with a portion of the other 15% of the time her being preoccupied and therefore oblivious to (and unbothered by) the guy’s attempts to get her attention in the first place. By my twenties “not interested” was my default assumption. Better to be considered aloof than creepy, I suppose. That assumption led to me meeting Ms. P. There was someone I hung out with a lot, but wasn’t really dating. I didn’t think she had any romantic interest in me, and I wasn’t going to mess up a friendship by trying to push it in that direction. She invited me to her 30th birthday party, where I met the future Ms. P. When she found out we were dating, she acted a little disappointed and said she’d kind of wanted to date me. She attended our wedding, and she’s still friends with both Ms. P and me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-hetero-normative-dating-the-woman-makes-the-first-move/836227.md?page=3)