# On "I'm Christian, unless you're gay" and Christian "tolerance" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867 "2012-04-04T23:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/221 "2012-04-13T03:39:57Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > You do not get to pronounce that. Neither do I, nor do any other Christians, by the way. > > From the brief description **sisu** gave, I’d say there’s pretty strong evidence for “good friend of the gay groom”, but that’s as far as my powers of deduction take me… That’s about it, it is not my place to judge that is Gods. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/222 "2012-04-13T04:11:54Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > You do not get to pronounce that. After so many centuries of Christianity tormenting the world, yes I think I have a right to condemn it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/223 "2012-04-13T04:41:21Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I’ll grant you the second question is different in degree, but it is, as I claimed, of the same form. All of the questions are _petitio principii_ arguments which assume the hypocrisy of the subject groups in order to show that that those groups are hypocritical. One thing I didn’t mention above is that numbers 1 and 3 were falsifiable with a google search. Incidentally, I capsized my own argument in post 197 with my wiki link. I’ll quote the relevant section: **Health care reform** Sojourners served as a lead organization building support for Health care reform. President Obama and Wallis spoke on a teleconference call about health-care reform.[18] Audio from the call has now been played more than 300,000 times. Sojourners also organized a campaign challenging opponents of reform. Its constituents sent 100,000 emails to national media opponents of health-care reform and their advertisers. In addition, Wallis debated leading opponents of health-care reform on national television. Sojourners distributed health-care reform resources to 30,000 pastors. In 2009, Sojourners brought together 1,153 faith leaders and activists who met with the offices of 84 senators and 213 representatives to advocate for health-care reform.[19] See especially the last sentence. Now Gary Bauer operates at a higher plane than this. But it’s pretty obvious that Sojourners meaningfully engages with the political process. But aren’t the mainstreamers getting creamed on the playground by the fundis? > [@](#): > > You may _feel_ as if mainstream Christian concerns aren’t being translated into serious political activism, but you seem to be basing this on shallow and arbitrary criteria. -That their efforts aren’t as visible as those of the demagogic religious right is no indication that their efforts are fewer or less enthusiastic. The same association of Catholic bishops now publicly and wrongheadedly whinging about contraception and “abortifacients” in mandated health plans have been steadily lobbying for universal health care in the US for at least the last thirty years, and have been at least as effective in their efforts as any particular politicians (up until our current President). You lost me on that last sentence. Bishops may have advocated universal health care, but I haven’t seen any evidence that they’ve moved the needle at all. On your central point, the religious right certainly has a far higher profile than Wallis et al. And they have effectively mobilized broad swaths of evangelicals to register to vote, turn out during election years, and support candidates who …cut taxes on the rich. That’s the confusing part of all this: I might dismiss Sourjouners, except for the fact that the Christian Right has little to show for themselves at the federal level, insofar as their issues are concerned. Their greatest concrete accomplishment seems to be curbing discussion of evolution in high school science textbooks and discouraging abortion doctors from opening up offices in certain localities. These aren’t great political accomplishments. Yet their collateral effects have been tremendous in terms of cutting red tape for fraudulent mortgage lenders, handing Presidencies over on the basis of judicial party affiliation, launching pointless wars, blocking steps to address potential ecological catastrophe and busting budgets with tax cuts for wealthy. Fundis give so much and get so little of what they ask for. Odd. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/224 "2012-04-13T04:42:05Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > That’s about it, it is not my place to judge that is Gods. OK. Empty the jails, erect a monument to Hitler, give away your possessions to the next person who asks for them, let strange men from the Internet come to visit your children. Oh, wait, SOME things we can and should judge, and the only question is which? There you go. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/225 "2012-04-13T05:27:24Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > OK. Empty the jails, erect a monument to Hitler, give away your possessions to the next person who asks for them, let strange men from the Internet come to visit your children. > > Oh, wait, SOME things we can and should judge, and the only question is which? There you go. You know, I honestly do not believe that you get it at all. There is a large segment of American society which claims the name of ‘Christian’ – has for all practical purposes preempted it from the groups which have historically identified themselves as such – which is using that identity in ways that are abhorrent to people interested in advancing social justice, for the poor, the elderly, the homeless, the unemployed, various minorities, and yes, the gay community as well. On that point there is very little disagreement on this board. What has drawn this thread out to the liength it has grown to, and occasioned some less-than-polite remarks addressed to you, **C.Robot** , is your, and **Der Trihs** ’s insistence on painting all the people who stand in support of fair and equal treatment for you as well as those others I named above, because they believe it to be their moral and ethical obligation due to attempting to follow the precepts of Jesus of Nazareth. You are in one fell swoop condemning myself, **RTFirefly, Baker, Skammer, Bricker, Triskadecamus, Algher, Siege, tomndebb** , and a host of others, including the author of the glurge that occasioned your OP. And the point behind that glurge, such as it was, is that the job of a Christian is not to judge you, put barriers in your way, condemn you for what you wish to do… No, the job is to show practical love for you by standing alongside you when others do that sort of crap to you, to combat the doing of that sort of crap, to judge you only with the same sort of compassion, empathy, caring that they themselves would wish to be judged by, to do unto you as they would want you to do unto them if the shoe were on the other foot. When I speak of sin, it’s one of two things: (a) my own sins, because I am not as good a person as I could wish to be, and I need to try harder, and (b) the sort of holier-than-thou, knows-better-than-you-what’s-good-for-you attitude which Jesus himsself condemned in the religious elite of his time. I for one do not blame you for finding ‘Christian’ a term of insult – as **DT** keeps pointing out, many things done in Christ’s name no doubt pissed him off mightily, because they were the exact opposite of how he said to behave – what I do take exception to is your tarring all those who would want to stand shoiulder to shoulder with you with the same broad brush, of insisting on condemning people whose motivations you clearly (from the evidence in this thread) have no clud about beause they stand for something precious to them which has been hijacked by the Religious Right (who in the infamous phrase are neither). Granted we are not making enough noise. We’re trying, dammit. Give us a break. Or you will find yourself in the place Martin Heidegger did. As Ben Franklin put it, if we do not all hang together, we shall assuredly all be hanged separately. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/226 "2012-04-13T15:09:34Z")
Nice post, Poly. > [@](#): > > Granted we are not making enough noise. We’re trying, dammit. Give us a break. This is true, and it doesn’t help that when one of us _does_ try to take a public stand, he gets pitted for it, and called a liar, a hypocrite and a “bad Christian.” (BTW, **Poly** will back me up that any honest Christian will admit to being a bad one.) ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/227 "2012-04-13T17:38:31Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > You lost me on that last sentence. Bishops may have advocated universal health care, but I haven’t seen any evidence that they’ve moved the needle at all. Well, that was my point, poorly outlined as it was: The bishops’ failure to affect healthcare reform for that thirty year period is no worse than, say, Ted Kennedy’s or Hilary Clinton’s or any number of actual working politicians’ failures during the same period. I wouldn’t say that was because Kennedy or Clinton weren’t committed to reform with sufficient vehemence or vigor, so it’s not really relevant IMO whether the needle moved. I think it would be extraordinarily difficult to guess how much existing influence mainline Christians failed to exploit when _no one_ was able to move that needle until the right political stars aligned. > [@](#): > > [The religious right’s] greatest concrete accomplishment seems to be curbing discussion of evolution in high school science textbooks and discouraging abortion doctors from opening up offices in certain localities. These aren’t great political accomplishments. Let’s not forget delaying and sometimes reversing marriage equality laws, setting stem cell research back for a decade in the US and making contraceptives and reproductive health information more difficult to obtain. So at least there’s that. > [@](#): > > Fundis give so much and get so little of what they ask for. Odd. Since the Tea Party electoral wave of 2010, fundies have got to be at least a little pleased with all the zygote personhood amendments and slut shaming bills floating around state legislatures. I honestly don’t know whether many are even upset by the collateral positions attached to their preferred candidates. I think the fact that the right wing political coalition includes a wide range of other conservative interest groups besides the evangelicals kind of muddies the water regarding their relative influence vs. “mainliners.” My apologies to polemicists for participating in the hijacking of the thread into an actual discussion. I will try to restrict further commentary to the “nuh-uh / no, _you_” variety. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/228 "2012-04-13T18:17:09Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > What has drawn this thread out to the liength it has grown to, and occasioned some less-than-polite remarks addressed to you, **C.Robot** , is your, and **Der Trihs** ’s insistence on painting all the people who stand in support of fair and equal treatment for you as well as those others I named above, because they believe it to be their moral and ethical obligation due to attempting to follow the precepts of Jesus of Nazareth. > > You are in one fell swoop condemning myself, **RTFirefly, Baker, Skammer, Bricker, Triskadecamus, Algher, Siege, tomndebb** , and a host of others, including the author of the glurge that occasioned your OP. I have no basis to question your personal belief that homosexuality is not a sin. But when you defend people who engage in the “I forgive you for your sin of homosexuality/blackness/having a vagina/etc” line of “tolerance” or you endorse ethics based on “the precepts of Jesus” you’re encouraging the problem I am addressing. Ultimately, you’re just saying that your made-up nonsense is better than the made-up nonsense of Osama bin Laden or Fred Phelps because it’s more in line with things that aren’t made-up nonsense. Which, on a practical level, is true, but you’re providing absolutely no reason to exclude every other shade of belief from legitimacy, whether it’s “you guys are gross but I suppose it should be against the law to murder you” or “put all the gays in concentration camps or God will smite the U.S.” Ultimately, all faith has zero truth value, and by engaging in any of it you are endorsing all of it since every faith-based argument is equally valid and equally likely to be true. > [@](#): > > And the point behind that glurge, such as it was, is that the job of a Christian is not to judge you, put barriers in your way, condemn you for what you wish to do… No, the job is to show practical love for you by standing alongside you when others do that sort of crap to you, to combat the doing of that sort of crap, to judge you only with the same sort of compassion, empathy, caring that they themselves would wish to be judged by, to do unto you as they would want you to do unto them if the shoe were on the other foot. But no one actually believes this (or if they do they are tremendously disturbed). Who is going to say we shouldn’t “judge” or “put barriers in the way of” a murderer or a pedophile or a Bernie Madoff? The hand-waving of “EVERYONE is a sinner and NO ONE should be judged” is bullshit, the only question is which things are sin and which things should be judged and how. This is one of the issues with “liberal” Christiainity–in its throw-everything-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks attempt to prove that it was, like an unmasked Scooby-Doo villain, the real Christianity all along, it too often resorts to obvious bullshit. > [@](#): > > what I do take exception to is your tarring all those who would want to stand shoiulder to shoulder with you with the same broad brush, of insisting on condemning people whose motivations you clearly (from the evidence in this thread) have no clud about beause they stand for something precious to them which has been hijacked by the Religious Right (who in the infamous phrase are neither). Again, I do not consider any person propounding a variant of “homosexuality is a sinful behavior, but nevertheless we should love/not violently oppose/not outlaw it” to be an ally. That YOU PERSONALLY may not believe this does not change the fact that most people preaching “tolerance” do. > [@](#): > > Or you will find yourself in the place Martin Heidegger did. I assume you are using a provocative example to accuse me of being a bad philosopher, and not calling me a Nazi…? And to the person claiming that the majority of Catholics are OK with gays…this is exactly the sort of nonsense I’m talking about. If they’re so morally OK with homosexuality why are they active in and sending funding to a church that has basically converted itself into a full-time anti-marriage-equality PAC? Actions speak louder than words. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/229 "2012-04-13T19:02:08Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > And to the person claiming that the majority of Catholics are OK with gays…this is exactly the sort of nonsense I’m talking about. If they’re so morally OK with homosexuality why are they active in and sending funding to a church that has basically converted itself into a full-time anti-marriage-equality PAC? Actions speak louder than words. As the person who posted actual data, I assume you are talking about me here. You do realize that the Catholic church does a hell of a lot more than just deal with marriage equality, right? While that issue is at the top of your mind, it is pretty far down on the list of many Catholics. As you can see from the Gallup poll data, the majority of Catholics are beyond tolerance and actually support marriage equality. The Vatican, however, has a different stance at this time. The Vatican controls the official message, but the parishioners have their own opinions as proved by the poll data. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/230 "2012-04-13T19:04:31Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > As the person who posted actual data, I assume you are talking about me here. > > You do realize that the Catholic church does a hell of a lot more than just deal with marriage equality, right? While that issue is at the top of your mind, it is pretty far down on the list of many Catholics. As you can see from the Gallup poll data, the majority of Catholics are beyond tolerance and actually support marriage equality. The Vatican, however, has a different stance at this time. The Vatican controls the official message, but the parishioners have their own opinions as proved by the poll data. They have their stated opinions, and then they have the fact that they belong to and donate to the Catholic Church. You prefer to believe in the modern American bullshit of “I am whatever I say I am,” I prefer to look at the facts about their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/231 "2012-04-13T19:06:02Z")
> **[Minnesota Archbishop Instructs Every Priest In The State To Push Passage Of...](https://www.towleroad.com/2011/10/minnesota-archbishop-instructs-every-priest-in-the-state-to-push-passage-of-anti-gay-marriage-amendm/)** > > Minnesota Archbishop John Nienstedt is taking a page from the playbook used by PR firm Schubert Flint in successful efforts to pass Proposition 8 in This is the Catholic Church. Your claim is that you can be a part of this organization and not be anti-gay. That is not feasible. Also, we’ve come a long way from “my hippie Unitarian convocation is The Real Christianity” to the point where even Catholics are being defended under the banner of “tolerance.” What’s next, throw the Baptists in for good measure? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/232 "2012-04-13T19:18:40Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > [http://www.towleroad.com/2011/10/minnesota-archbishop-instructs-every-priest-in-the-state-to-push-passage-of-anti-gay-marriage-amendm.html](http://www.towleroad.com/2011/10/minnesota-archbishop-instructs-every-priest-in-the-state-to-push-passage-of-anti-gay-marriage-amendm.html) > > This is the Catholic Church. Your claim is that you can be a part of this organization and not be anti-gay. That is not feasible. > > Also, we’ve come a long way from “my hippie Unitarian convocation is The Real Christianity” to the point where even Catholics are being defended under the banner of “tolerance.” What’s next, throw the Baptists in for good measure? Tell you what - you are an American? So who the fuck are you to talk. Your nation is discriminatory. I assume you are leaving the country and not sending in your taxes for much longer? California is officially a bigoted state due to Prop 8, but have all of the progressives left the state? No? Oh - you mean even though the voters went one way, others are sticking around to fight. Do you cast aspersions on every single person in California for belonging to a bigoted State? There is not a single organization that I belong to that I am in 100% agreement with. I am am not in agreement with my city, my county, my state, my nation, my church (Presbyterians are great on gay issues, but believe in gun control which I oppose), the Sierra club (they hate hunting which I love, but they fight for the environment which I support). Your attacks on ALL Christians is simplistic and counter productive to what I assume is your goal. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/233 "2012-04-13T19:46:35Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > … Your attacks on ALL Christians is simplistic and counter productive to what I assume is your goal. Unless that _is_ your goal… it’s the only one you’ve succeeded at so far. Seriously, someone says “I love my gay neighbors” and you say “You’re a catholic. You’re being hypocritical if you don’t hate them!” I don’t know one single catholic that agrees with everything the Vatican (or hateful bishops-- we’ve got a doozy) says. Meanwhile, you’ve got other denominations, like Anglicans/Episcopalians and Lutherans, celebrating homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/234 "2012-04-13T19:56:48Z")
This thread is making me hungry for some Chik-fil-A samiches. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/235 "2012-04-13T20:13:31Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Seriously, someone says “I love my gay neighbors” and you say “You’re a catholic. You’re being hypocritical if you don’t hate them!” No, I’m questioning their definition of “love” that involves serving on an anti-marriage-equality lobbying committee and donating money to discriminatory laws. We’re back to the basic issue here–saying “I don’t think you have the rights of other people and I’m working to enshrine that into law, but it’s because I love you” is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/236 "2012-04-13T20:55:50Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Saying “I don’t think you have the rights of other people and I’m working to enshrine that into law, but it’s because I love you” is bullshit. So… you agree with the guy who wrote “I Love You Unless You’re Gay.” Because that’s pretty much the same point he was making. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/237 "2012-04-13T22:58:00Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > (Mods please fix typo in title. That’s another thing not to tolerate…) > > So, [this](http://jennwraspir.blogspot.com/2012/04/im-christain-unless-youre-gay.html) has become the latest feel-good Internet meme with the occasional [real-world resonance.](http://www.danoah.com/2012/04/a-teens-brave-response-to-im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html/1/) > > I find it absolutely appalling and a perfect summation of what’s wrong with the “tolerant/liberal Christian” attitude towards sexual minorities. > > First off, it goes for the typical No True Scotsman. History of Christian responsibility for gay-bashing? Welp, those weren’t The Real Christians so it doesn’t matter! Not our problem! And just like that, the historical–and ongoing–Christian persecution of sexual minorities becomes an internecine theological dispute rather than a pressing problem of other people’s safety and wellbeing. > > Of course, this is an emanation of the fundamental problem with the attitude of the article, which is its focus on lumping everyone who is “different” into a single mass. It advocates “tolerance” of gays, of the pierced, of gang members, of wife-beaters. Being gay is the same as shooting metal into your nose at age 15 to make a fashion statement, the same as being a hardened criminal, the same as abusing your spouse. This is what those preaching “tolerance” of the gay community preach! > > This isn’t about accepting legitimate sexual differences at all. It’s about showing how morally righteous the Christian is for piously restraining his desire to put us all in jail where we belong with the biker gangs and the meth-heads and the guys who bounce their wives off the walls. Aren’t they so upstanding and saintly for tolerating such filth! > > I don’t want to be compared to a violent criminal or some teenager’s fashion accessories for being gay. I don’t want you to gloat about how “tolerant” you are of my disgusting behavior. Christian “tolerance” and Christian hatred are two sides of the same coin. Stop saying that my sexuality is something you get brownie points for “tolerating.” I don’t lose any moral standing for being gay and I don’t need to be “tolerated” for it by someone who believes in a goddamn invisible man in the sky. > > Sometimes the “liberal, tolerant” Christians are worse than the fundmentalists/evangelicals. At least the latter group doesn’t dress up their horror at the existence of gays in the language of “tolerance” and talk about how awesome they are for it. There is one mentally diseased state that I should get credit for “tolerating” despite the repulsion it inspires in any sane person, and it’s not homosexuality, it’s religion. I consider myself a Christian. I would say I am a Man of Faith, not a Man of Religion. The people you seem to be describing I would say are religious, not faithful My understanding of The Bible tells me, it isnt my issue. God will decide on the day of Judgment, and it is between you and Him. So, I can like you for who you are. In short, this cartoon kind of says how I feel about those you describe. Im new here so Mods please forgive me since I dont really have a feel for the board [![](https://image.cagle.com/working/101012/mikescott.jpg) ](https://image.cagle.com/working/101012/mikescott.jpg) Nothing in the Bible says we have to somehow “change” you. You are you, and my job as a Christian is to make God accessible to you (Fellowship) which this post does. The rest is up to you. When those you describe, do as you define, they keep you from God. The Bible tells us Christians not to throw stumbling blocks in front of our brothers. This means not to act in a way that will push you away from God. Your post seems to indicate that is what theyre doing. Dont throw all Christians in the same basket. We dont all hate ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/238 "2012-04-14T01:49:21Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Unless that _is_ your goal… it’s the only one you’ve succeeded at so far. > > Seriously, someone says “I love my gay neighbors” and you say “You’re a catholic. You’re being hypocritical if you don’t hate them!” > > I don’t know one single catholic that agrees with everything the Vatican (or hateful bishops-- we’ve got a doozy) says. Meanwhile, you’ve got other denominations, like Anglicans/Episcopalians and Lutherans, celebrating homosexuality. You’re damned if you do, you’re damned if you don’t. Haters gonna hate. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/239 "2012-04-14T18:30:21Z")
[Here is an article](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17712028) where a former Archbishop of Canterbury claims Christians are being discriminated against because they are not legally allowed to discriminate against gays. Anyone still want to claim that these are minority, not mainstream views? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/240 "2012-04-14T19:23:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > [Here is an article](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17712028) where a former Archbishop of Canterbury claims Christians are being discriminated against because they are not legally allowed to discriminate against gays. > > Anyone still want to claim that these are minority, not mainstream views? Are you arguing that the fucking Archbishop of Canterbury is mainstream? That’s Church of England, right? Hell, I live in Georgia. I don’t even know where Canterbury is. I assume it’s in England. Maybe I’ll look it up on Wikipedia. I’ve been to Devon. Nice place. Is it near there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867.md?page=13)