# On "I'm Christian, unless you're gay" and Christian "tolerance" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867 "2012-04-04T23:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/281 "2012-04-16T20:12:05Z")
BTW… **Der Trihs** …could you just go hug Phred and get [_it_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilation) over with already? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/282 "2012-04-17T15:11:39Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > **MrDibble** , are you having real difficulty parsing my posts, or is it easier to pretend only the selected parts you decide to quote exist? If you’re just stupid, I’ll be patient, but if you’re deliberately dishonest, I’ll disengage now. Because when someone responds to “read past the first paragraph” with “My quote _was_ your first paragraph”, it’s one or the other. Whoops - “just stupid” covers it, I read that as “read the first paragraph”, no “past”, which explains my confusion. So to answer, I never said Christians were less tolerant than most other groups or that homophobia was inherent in Christianity. Just that “we’re only _half_ of us intolerant” is not much of a defence of the whole. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/283 "2012-04-17T15:22:52Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > **Miller** was far too generous in his evaluiation. > > Over in MPSIMS, the parents of schoolchildren have been discussing what are good remedial reading for comprehension programs. You may want to check that thread out. I like how the entire body of “liberal Christian” theology amounts to a few contradictory platitudes, plus immediately resorting to yelling “you’re stupid!” or “don’t point out that I believe in something ridiculous because it hurts my precious feelings” whenever someone takes the necessary ten seconds to derive the contradictions. I honestly prefer the fundamentalists (that’s what we call “evangelicals” when we’re not trying to apologize for them, btw). At least they are honest about their beliefs and able to use the more entertaining condemnations to hellfire when cornered. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/284 "2012-04-17T16:03:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So to answer, I never said Christians were less tolerant than most other groups or that homophobia was inherent in Christianity. Just that “we’re only _half_ of us intolerant” is not much of a defence of the whole. Thanks for the response that was much more polite than my last. I unreservedly agree that 50% intolerance is a horrible ratio. But the point was directed to the OP and several like-minded respondents who consider a declaration in favor of love and fellowship to be hypocritical or “probably” false because it comes from a Christian. I apologize sincerely for conflating your objection to existing levels of bias with some sort of general agreement with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/285 "2012-04-17T20:14:52Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > I like how the entire body of “liberal Christian” theology amounts to a few contradictory platitudes, plus immediately resorting to yelling “you’re stupid!” or “don’t point out that I believe in something ridiculous because it hurts my precious feelings” whenever someone takes the necessary ten seconds to derive the contradictions. I honestly prefer the fundamentalists (that’s what we call “evangelicals” when we’re not trying to apologize for them, btw). At least they are honest about their beliefs and able to use the more entertaining condemnations to hellfire when cornered. I sincerely doubt, based on your posting in this thread, that you know shit about liberal Christian theology. I would be surprised if you have spent more than 2 minutes perusing either of these sites, for example: Sojourners (mentioned in an earlier post): [http://sojo.net/](http://sojo.net/) Or, if you want something denomination specific and pertinent to this thread: > **[Covenant Network of Presbyterians | PC(USA)](https://www.covnetpres.org/)** > > Explore resources, events, and news to support a just, inclusive church with the Covenant Network of Presbyterians. Engage with our community and vision today. By the way, Not all Evangelicals are Fundamentalist, and not all Fundamentalists are Evangelical. While there is a large amount of overlap, they two are not the same and describe two different things. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/286 "2012-04-17T22:36:38Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > I like how the entire body of “liberal Christian” theology amounts to a few contradictory platitudes, plus immediately resorting to yelling “you’re stupid!” Calling you stupid isn’t theology - that’s a purely secular determination. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/287 "2012-04-18T03:23:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Calling you stupid isn’t theology - that’s a purely secular determination. But it might just be divinely inspired. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/288 "2012-04-18T03:27:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So to answer, I never said Christians were less tolerant than most other groups or that homophobia was inherent in Christianity. Just that “we’re only _half_ of us intolerant” is not much of a defense of the whole. I dunno, if somebody is to vilify Christianity, a reasonable response might be to say that their attitudes aren’t markedly different from other groups. Which leads us to the latest polling data: who supports same-sex marriage? [http://publicreligion.org/research/2012/01/research-note-beyond-secular-vs-religious-religious-divides-in-support-for-same-sex-marriage/](http://publicreligion.org/research/2012/01/research-note-beyond-secular-vs-religious-religious-divides-in-support-for-same-sex-marriage/) Support is strongest among Jews (76%), the unaffiliated (72%), and non-Christian religiously affiliated Americans (63%), a group that includes Buddhists, Hindus, and Muslims. A majority of white Catholics (56%), Hispanic Catholics (53%), and white mainline Protestants (52%) also favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry. On the other side of the debate are black Protestants, Mormons and white evangelical Protestants. Among black Protestants, only one-third support allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry, compared to 63% who are opposed. Mormons and white evangelical Protestants have nearly identical profiles on this issue. Only about 1-in 5 of Mormons (23%) and white evangelical Protestants (20%) support same-sex marriage, compared to three-quarters (75% each) who are opposed. Handy chart at the link. I find it interesting that support among Jews is stronger than all groups, even the unaffiliated, given that the textual basis for homophobia is most pronounced in Leviticus. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/289 "2012-04-18T09:07:13Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > I find it interesting that support among Jews is stronger than all groups, even the unaffiliated, given that the textual basis for homophobia is most pronounced in Leviticus. Maybe they’ll bring rocks instead of rice to the wedding reception? Or just use the marriage registry as a bounty list? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/290 "2012-04-18T18:07:15Z")
What? I hope that was a whoosh… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/291 "2012-04-18T18:46:47Z")
> [@digs](#): > > But it might just be divinely inspired. Reminds me of that old conundrum: Can God create a person so stupid not even God can explain something to him? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/292 "2012-04-18T19:07:47Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > [@MfM's link](#): > > > > On the other side of the debate are black Protestants, Mormons and white evangelical Protestants. Among black Protestants, only one-third support allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry, compared to 63% who are opposed. I eagerly await, e.g., **Condescending Robot** ’s and **Der Trihs** ’s tut-tutting about how being black is evil because it encourages you to be homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/293 "2012-04-18T20:52:37Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > What? > > I hope that was a whoosh… Whoosh, I’m assuming. Leviticus (which is not only a book in the old testament of the Christian Bible, but also the third book in the Jewish Torah) advocates stoning homosexuals. That was the joke. Throw rocks instead of rice. Leviticus also goes in to graphic detail on how, _specifically_, you are supposed to sacrifice a goat. I have never met anybody in my entire life that takes it seriously. If you bothered to learn about what you hate so much (I haven’t forgotten the pit thread about you advocating all religious people should be killed) you might catch references to Leviticus as a punch line. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/294 "2012-04-18T21:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > If you bothered to learn about what you hate so much (I haven’t forgotten the pit thread about you advocating all religious people should be killed) you might catch references to Leviticus as a punch line. shit shit shit shit shit! **Yeticus Rex** , I was thinking about somebody completely different. You are not that asshole, and you never said something like that. You have my abject apologies. Wow, I fucked up there. I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/295 "2012-04-18T21:19:04Z")
Ha! I was thinking, “Really? Yeti? I don’t remember him being an anti-religious jerk. He even teamed up with my priest in WoW…” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/296 "2012-04-18T21:52:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I eagerly await, e.g., **Condescending Robot** ’s and **Der Trihs** ’s tut-tutting about how being black is evil because it encourages you to be homophobic. :rolleyes: Are black people born with writing on them that tells them to hate homosexuals? You can’t rationally compare skin color to a religion. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/297 "2012-04-18T22:05:10Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/298 "2012-04-18T22:27:03Z")
Heh…[it’s all good man, cuz I called Saul Goodman!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4BoayiKoNNY#t=69s) My apologies for being the fish that bit on that hook. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/299 "2012-04-18T22:33:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I eagerly await, e.g., **Condescending Robot** ’s and **Der Trihs** ’s tut-tutting about how being black is evil because it encourages you to be homophobic. Don’t worry, I’ve forgiven them for being black. You can send me my prize in the mail. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/300 "2012-04-18T22:37:32Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Ha! I was thinking, “Really? Yeti? I don’t remember him being an anti-religious jerk. He even teamed up with my priest in WoW…” 😃 As a catholic who voted No on 8, I knew I wasn’t the only one who had the same viewpoint…but I am surprised that a majority of catholics have the same viewpoint as I do…which is heartening…I know some folks want to see 100% support from every religious group in their lifetime, but it will probably take a lifetime for the bigotry to die off…literally…the main focus should be on the younger generation not becoming as bigoted as their predecessors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867.md?page=16)