# On "I'm Christian, unless you're gay" and Christian "tolerance" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867 "2012-04-04T23:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/61 "2012-04-05T23:53:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Then they are mentally ill - and that _also_ means their opinions aren’t worthy of respect. Do you respect the opinion of the guy on the streetcorner shrieking that the aliens are coming to eat us? WHOA, whoa, whoa! As a pro-gay, atheist with mental illness, I think this comment is highly offensive and over the line. Having mental illness does _NOT_ mean that none of my opinions are worthy of respect. And being hardwired to commit cognitive errors that lead one to hold false beliefs, even ridiculous beliefs that you think aren’t worthy of respect, does not make one mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/62 "2012-04-05T23:53:18Z")
Well, I wonder what the basis is for your rabid hatred of Christians. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/63 "2012-04-05T23:54:53Z")
I am a gay, liberal atheist. Not at all a Christian. But I can understand the difference between beliefs and actions. Yes you can be a “good person” and believe that homosexuality is wrong, that sodomy is a sin, or any number of other anachronistic beliefs. To me, someone is judged based on their actions, NOT on their beliefs. What you’re suggesting (I think), is that people who have beliefs that you disagree with are bad people, regardless of how they act. That is absolutely ridiculous. IF those beliefs manifest in hate speech, laws, or other things that hurt gay people, then those ACTIONS are bad/evil/wrong, and the people committing them are wrong. But a belief in and of itself cannot be right or wrong, in my opinion. Say someone secretly hates gays. But they treat you nicely. They never say anything rude to you about being gay. They openly support your right to marry. They don’t want to restrict your right to love who you want to love. But they HATE the fact that you are gay and wish that you weren’t. What’s so wrong with that? I hate Neo-Nazis, and I think that the stuff they advocate for is quite deleterious. But I fully support their right to believe what they want, and to voice their opinions. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/64 "2012-04-05T23:56:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s not surprising to me at all. It’s a common attitude here that we are supposed to bend over backwards to pretend that Christianity is nice and that the bigots are some tiny minority, instead of the norm. It’s OK to condemn a small & unpopular religion like Scientology, but _never_ Christianity - it’s supposed to be looked upon as a _good_ thing. If the OP had gone on with a lot of excuses about how the people he’s complaining about are “just a tiny minority” and how they “don’t represent Christianity” then it would have been much better received. That’s because what Scientology does is worse than merely tolerating people they don’t agree with. The OP is fired up mad because Christians are slowly coming to accept homosexuality. He’s mad that an organization that has held that gay people were bad for 2000 years is taking a little longer than the rest of society to accept him. He’s mad at the rhetoric used that will insure that, by the next generation, homosexuality is no big deal, as no one will realize they are just “tolerating” it. It casts him as a whiny baby. And people just tolerating black people is exactly what I’m using as my prediction that gay people will eventually be accepted. Those who tolerate don’t teach their kids to hate, and their kids usually don’t even use body language to indicate hatred. Getting mad at them while they are making progress is just going to destroy that progress, and make them hate gay people again. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/65 "2012-04-05T23:59:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What, I can’t think something is stupid unless the person believing it personally comes up to me and physically attacks me? And a violent fanatic Christian would be more likely to shoot me than rape me anyway. To have the type of emotional reaction you have, yeah, it would help. Hating people for things you just know about in the abstract is kinda weird. Especially for someone who claims to not be religious. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/66 "2012-04-06T00:45:43Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I’m so upset and angry by these articles someone please tell me who to be angry at! It’s all so confusing. Just wait until the electioneering really gets rolling later this year. I expect that half the nation will be instructed and encouraged to hate the other half. Re: The OP… it piqued my BS meter as well. I couldn’t find anything on Snopes about it, though (yet). ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/67 "2012-04-06T00:52:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The OP is fired up mad because Christians are slowly coming to accept homosexuality. But…they’re not, and this sort of “tolerance” is what leads to the divisions festering. Look at the conservative attitude towards blacks. “We let you in the schools, we stopped lynching you, and you want MORE? Why aren’t you THANKING us?” Christians proudly announcing that they forgive me for the sin of being gay and will now “tolerate” my continued existence as an alive and unimprisoned person are not doing anything I appreciate. TOLERANCE is not ACCEPTANCE. They need to CHANGE their doctrine to stop calling homosexuality a sin to be “tolerated” in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/68 "2012-04-06T01:38:59Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Christians proudly announcing that they forgive me for the sin of being gay and will now “tolerate” my continued existence as an alive and unimprisoned person are not doing anything I appreciate. TOLERANCE is not ACCEPTANCE. That’s the REAL issue at hand. You don’t want to be tolerated. You want to be accepted. You want everyone to think that you’re hunky dory and anything you do is a-ok. Normal, yes … but unrealistic. You should have figured out by 3rd grade that not everybody is going to like and accept you. Even if you were straight, not everyone would want you to sit at their lunch table. That’s life. You can’t put a gun to anyone’s head and force them to feel differently about you. Another thing you might want to learn – if someone happens to dislike you it may not be because you’re gay. It might be you’re just a dick. Or they’re a dick. > [@Condescending Robot](#): > > They need to CHANGE their doctrine to stop calling homosexuality a sin to be “tolerated” in the first place. A 2,000 year old religion isn’t going to change because of what you do with your dick and it’s pretty arrogant to think it should. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/69 "2012-04-06T02:09:47Z")
PandaBear, couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s stupid AND selfish to expect everyone to accept you and everything about you. It’s not stupid to expect everyone to tolerate you. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/70 "2012-04-06T02:29:32Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > You don’t want to be tolerated. You want to be accepted. You want everyone to think that you’re hunky dory and anything you do is a-ok. Normal, yes … but unrealistic. Now say this to blacks, or Jews, or women who want to work in white-collar jobs, and see how it sounds. > [@](#): > > A 2,000 year old religion isn’t going to change because of what you do with your dick and it’s pretty arrogant to think it should. You’re a homophobe. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/71 "2012-04-06T02:45:47Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Now say this to blacks, or Jews, or women who want to work in white-collar jobs, and see how it sounds. > > You’re a homophobe. Guess I’m a homophobe too, if I agree with him? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/72 "2012-04-06T02:54:57Z")
So “religious people are giant fucking hypocrites and can’t practice a single thing they preach” is meme-worthy now? Hasn’t this been not-news since religion was around? Did some high schooler get a hold of the Decameron or something? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/73 "2012-04-06T02:56:16Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Guess I’m a homophobe too, if I agree with him? If you agree with the valuing of worthless religious beliefs over equality? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/74 "2012-04-06T02:59:26Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Now say this to blacks, or Jews, or women who want to work in white-collar jobs, and see how it sounds. Dear blacks, Jews, and women who want to work in white collar jobs: You don’t want to be tolerated. You want to be accepted. You want everyone to think that you’re hunky dory and anything you do is a-ok. Normal, yes … but unrealistic. You should have figured out by 3rd grade that not everybody is going to like and accept you. Even if you were (not black, not Jewish, not a white collar woman), not everyone would want you to sit at their lunch table. That’s life. You can’t put a gun to anyone’s head and force them to feel differently about you. Another thing you might want to learn – if someone happens to dislike you it may not be because you’re (black, Jewish, white collar woman). It might be you’re just a dick. Or they’re a dick. Thereya go. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/75 "2012-04-06T03:14:47Z")
PandaBear77, you are my new hero. Condescending Robot: nobody here wants to take equality away (or keep it away) from gays. That’s not what I’m advocating. That’s not what PandaBear is advocating. And you know it. The people who are disagreeing with you here are trying to get you to realize that there is nothing wrong with being tolerated. We are trying to get you to understand that people have beliefs that are different than yours, and some of those beliefs are bad (according to you), but beliefs in and of themselves can’t and won’t hurt you. It’s people’s actions that you should be directing your disdain towards, not their beliefs. I am very happy to live in a country where people can openly believe in Naziism, Buddism, Atheism, and harbor whichever beliefs they want. Whether they are beliefs I agree with or not, I respect their rights to have them, and to voice them. Of course, if they act on those beliefs by harassing, bullying, hurting or whatever, then of course I’m 100% against it. If anyone is against equality, it’s you Condescending Robot. You seem to believe that everyone should share your beliefs, and if they don’t, they shouldn’t be afforded the same equality as you. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/76 "2012-04-06T03:29:09Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > If anyone is against equality, it’s you Condescending Robot. You seem to believe that everyone should share your beliefs, and if they don’t, they shouldn’t be afforded the same equality as you. The gay agenda oppressing Christians! Indoctrinating our children! Terror! Panic! ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/77 "2012-04-06T03:46:28Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The gay agenda oppressing Christians! Indoctrinating our children! Terror! Panic! You are incorrigible, aren’t you? You already know that I’m both gay and atheist, as I’ve stated it clearly in this thread. I never said anything about the gay agenda, or oppressing Christians, or anything of the sort. I know this isn’t Great Debates, but at least try to have a somewhat rational argument with me, please. I’m putting in my best effort and you’re not even trying. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/78 "2012-04-06T03:51:33Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I know this isn’t Great Debates, but at least try to have a somewhat rational argument with me, please. I’m putting in my best effort and you’re not even trying. I’ve seen this guy post in Great Debates. I think you’re expecting too much from him. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/79 "2012-04-06T04:41:42Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > You are incorrigible, aren’t you? You already know that I’m both gay and atheist, as I’ve stated it clearly in this thread. I never said anything about the gay agenda, or oppressing Christians, or anything of the sort. > > I know this isn’t Great Debates, but at least try to have a somewhat rational argument with me, please. I’m putting in my best effort and you’re not even trying. So what’s this nonsense about making people less equal for believing wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867/80 "2012-04-06T05:37:08Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Hell, there is a picture going around on Facebook right now: > [http://lawlitasbearings.tumblr.com/post/19277147931/picturing-jesus-saying-did-i-fucking-stutter](http://lawlitasbearings.tumblr.com/post/19277147931/picturing-jesus-saying-did-i-fucking-stutter) A Jesus joke that made me spit up beer on my keyboard, awesome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-im-christian-unless-youre-gay-and-christian-tolerance/617867.md?page=5)