You met God? Cool. Next time you chat, ask him if P = NP, and ask for a proof or a counterexample. Because if God has inspired your posts so far, I’m not impressed.
While I only have a vague idea of what P=NP means, I will ask why you are not impressed and what can be done about that, thx.
The question of whether P = NP is a mathematical question, which is interesting mainly in that if we found a systematic way to convert NP problems into P problems we would be able to solve certain useful problems faster sooner. But I believe the true thrust of his point was that he doubts that your communication with God has ever provided you information that is both previously unknown and verfiable in a practical sense, and maybe useful too. You know, stuff like lottery numbers or the time and location of the next major earthquake or a unified theory of physics or why gravity happens or any number of other things along those lines. The implication, of course, is that your God hasn’t ever told you anything you didn’t already know or couldn’t imagine up.
I myself might have asked you about this, but I can already sense your answer: God didn’t tell you these things because he didn’t feel like it. And you don’t need the money. And those people are meant to die. And we’re not supposed to know things about the universe. And perhaps most importantly, God doesn’t want to prove his existence to the world, because it would be bad for faith or something to actually know he exists. Excepting for you, of course. You’re allowed to know he exists without he need for faith, because…I dunno. Maybe you’re just specialer than everybody else. Maybe he knows that you’re so spectacularly unconvincing that telling you won’t spread to anybody else. Maybe he just hates the rest of us. (So many possibilities!)
(Or of course maybe you never talked God at all, and have an active fantasy life and/or other issues. I don’t know; I’m not your doctor.)
Regardless, I can’t speak for Voyager, but personally I’m not impressed by how poor a job you’re doing at conveying a coherent and consistent mythos. This is not to say that you don’t have a self-consistent mythos, but if you do you’re very bad at describing it. First we were souls. Then we were bits of god. And now, apparently, we’re bits of Satan. First evil Satan had forced the torture/death requirement on God, then we learn that God brokered the deal willingly, then we learn that God did the whole thing intentionally to turn Satan non-evil, while simultaneously you’re reminding us that Satan is already a perfect child of God the whole time. I’ve gone to some lengths to attempt to tease out the details from you enough to lay out clear and unambiguous timelines and event descriptions, and then you post something that contradicts it all.
As I said, maybe you do have a consistent mythology that you’re merely describing very poorly - but it sure seems like you’re hastily revising yourself every time your prior statements start to make your god look bad or nonsensical, which is happening pretty often. (Though, to be fair, not much more than is happening to anybody else’s variant of the Christian God.)
What could you do to impress us? You mean, other than abandoning your entire theology and your claims of priviledged contact that reduce your credibility? It might help to clearly and simply lay out a single theology, in short and simple terms, and stick to it. Though for the purposes of the thread it might be good to limit it to the parts of the theology that relate to God’s habit of torturing and killing people, since that’s the topic at hand.
Remember, simplicity, clarity, and consistency.
Because one would assume that someone who was capable of interacting with the God described in Christianity would posess some insight or particular impressive knowledge. And all you have shown us are nonsense platitudes and bald assertions.
Essentially, you sound exactly like what a well meaning, but uninspired person who was pulling ideas out of his ass would sound like.
When you’re asking God for evidence, get the recipes for the highest temperature superconductors possible. That would do more for humanity than Christianity ever did.
I want to thank the last 3 posters in this constructive criticism especially begbert2. It is my believe that God wants to share those things you wrote about and will ask why has not been the information He gives me sharable to a usable degree for other and ask to start that.
Back to the OP, of all what I said, I think the part of that God is treating all us as important (as you stated you are as important to God as Jesus), a point that you recognized, is a good starting premise to the OP.
In all sincerity, good luck with that.
Also, if you find yourself in possession of lottery numbers for me, remember to PM them to me; putting them in a post visible to everyone would dilute the effect.
I think that most variations of Christianity presume that people on earth are examples of souls that are important to God. Most claim that the torture and execution of Jesus was somehow supposed to help us. The question, of course, is HOW.
If all us non-Jesus people’s problems are actually serving a specific, mechanical purpose too, that’s interesting, but in all seriousness the Problem of Evil as a whole is a touch beyond the scope of this thread, so it might be best to keep it to how it relates to the Jesus torture.
Now, in your specific theology, I think I understand the situation to be that per the rules laid out beforehand, God had been freely handing souls over to Satan’s torturefest when they sinned, and…for some reason personally torturing Jesus in Gethsemane and arranging for him to be whipped and crucified ensured a better outcome for everyone than, say, letting Jesus die peacefully in bed, or even on the cross without the garden torture first. Why was this helpful, again?
God will know. As for your posts, they are lacking in a certain logical rigor that I’d expect of something inspired. My great-grandfather was a Talmudic scholar (independent, as was so often the case in the lat 19th century) and I’d have hoped his reasoning to be clear - complex, certainly, but rigorous.
You seem to want to reject the nastiness which comes from a lot of standard Christianity, and that is a good thing. But like so many others you have one set of assumptions about God’s love, another set about Biblical correctness, and are having a hard time integrating them. You are hardly alone in this.
Quite the opposite. Someone interacting with God might transmit knowledge, but not have it. The reason I use P = NP is because is is not a result derived for greed. That kanicbird clearly couldn’t answer this question on his own (nor could I, and I even studied complexity in grad school) would support God’s glory, not his. The answer is also perhaps simple. Asking for a cure for AIDS probably wouldn’t be.
Carl Sagan noted that no one who supposedly met aliens and get a flying saucer ride ever came back with anything interesting and correct. Adamski at least claimed to know what Venus was like - he was totally wrong, of course, but at least he gave it a try.
Thank you, good intentions are appreciated 
In my theology we are all Jesus (we are all one person - all connected). Given the same inheritance and the same power, we are all heirs to the universe. So the suffering of Jesus is also our suffering. Or in other words all suffering is the suffering of Jesus, there is no distinction between the cross suffering and you stubbing your big toe suffering or someone’s brother suffering with cancer, it is all the suffering of Jesus in this world.
So then the question becomes equated to why is there any suffering in this world. Well the cause is Satan and Satan’s influence on humanity, but the question of why was this allowed by God.
I don’t have a firm answer to that, as I said before I hate the suffering that goes on here and want to see more of God’s power to prevent and heal it (I would like this a bit better then the lotto numbers - sorry). I can WAG is it’s what Satan needed to learn that his ways were not good and that Satan should desire better of himself and get the help he needs which would be from his parents (Father/Mother God). Basically hit rock bottom, something we see all too often in our human world. It is that level of dispare and desperation that is seemingly needed for at least some of us to want to change and I don’t think it unreasonable to assume Satan is simular.
Since humans seem to be also in this class of sometimes needing to hit rock bottom and may be why God grouped Satan and humanity together in this way. By Satan seeing us under suffering hit rock bottom and reform our ways may help point the way for him perhaps and the need for us to suffer.
So in that above ‘theory’ we are providing ‘the way’ for Satan by example - as Satan will suffer horribly. This is what Jesus did, He shows us ‘the way’ and this is what the early followers of Christ called the movement before Paul came on the seen.
Okay, look at this. In this post alone you said that we are all Jesus at the start, and that we are all Satan’s at the end. Yet I doubt you’re going to tell me Jesus is Satan’s slave. And you stated that my stubbed toe is as effective an example of suffering as Gethsemane, which makes it completely unnecessary for God to have bbq’d Jesus in the garden - and this was supposed to be an explanation for why Gethsemane and the cross were necessary, necessary enough for God to have to make them happen himself.
Do you see what I’m saying here? Being very kind, you’re not doing a very good job at being a model of clarity.
Also, God can reduce worldwide suffering and give me the lotto numbers. There’s no conflict there. Just sayin’.
I think you are just pushing to the winning lotto numbers. Perhaps a form of time travel would be more beneficial to humanity as the winning numbers are already available on the internet so would also serve that purpose, then again a time traveling humanity may not be such a great idea after all.
Pushing for the lotto numbers, me? What could possibly give you that idea?
Time traveling humanity would have no negative consequences whatsoever. (Trust me!) But that, my friend, would be discussion for another thread.
I want to go into this part and ask why you took it in such a different way then what I intended.
What I wanted to convey is all suffering of humanity + the suffering of Jesus at Gethsemane are added together and that sum total of suffering is everything Jesus had to suffer for the requirement to be met.
It seems like you are taking it as lets just take the least amount of suffering ever and use that to satisfy the requirement.
How did my message that I wanted to convey get so distorted?
Would you rather have them but can’t act on them in any way till after the drawing (if you do other numbers will come up) or would you rather be given the numbers to win the jackpot and within a year lose everything?
It happened because you said:
That phrase, “no distinction”, it means something. And it means that my toe stub and the cross suffering are interchangeable. (I admit that I extrapolated from there to Gethsmane, but you didn’t say anything to imply otherwise.)
See, this is part of your problem. The words that are coming out don’t say what you mean. And I’m a pretty crappy mind reader when there’s a whole internet in the way, so I have to go with what the words say, even if they aren’t what you meant.
So is your position that all the suffering of all humanity everyhere wasn’t quite enough to accomplish, well, whatever it is that that requirement is - so the whole reason for Jesus and Gethsemane and the cross was to top off the tank?
And why not just do it all in Gethsemane? It would have only taken a little more zapping there to include the cross’s worth of suffering too, and give Jesus another thirty years to wander around and get Christianity established right -since you seem to think that the way it actually played out humanity got its hands on the religion too soon and messed it all up.
What a freakish question. I would rather win the money, take the 20-year payout plan (so I couldn’t lose everything in a year), and each year put the payment in a distant bank account set to credit my normal accounts with a few thousand dollars each month, enough to live comfortably for the rest of my life. I want to retire, blast it, not burn out in a blaze of glorious stupidity.
But (sigh) if I must choose between not winning, and losing “everything” after a year, I would rather not win, since I have a few things to start with and losing “everything” would leave me worse off than I started.
So anyway, about torturing people…?
If you look in the dictionary you will see that Fact means the truth, a Myth is NOT A FACT! Fact is reality, myth is not!
I am not sure you would understand the explainations your thinking doesn’t seem to grasp anything except your own thinking, and to say you met God is a delusion as I see it. You “Believe You Met God” So I find it hard to accept anything you write, I know some one who was 5 years old who could have sworn they saw a big white rabbit pushing a wheel borrow loaded with Easter candy along their fence. To me that is the same thing.Mohammad said an angel of God dictated a book to him, which would also contradict your beliefs, I don’t believe that either. Belief isn’t fact,once a belife is proven then it becomes fact, and belief is no longer necessary.Fact is truth!
OK fair enough, I should not have expected you to be versed in mind reading over IP protocol (MRoIP).
Here is where it gets a little complicated but lets try it:
We, you, me, ‘the man Jesus’ every person you may see, is all part of a single body, that of Jesus the ‘combined entity’ (though lets take Satan out of this single body, Satan is not included for the purpose of this discussion though he may be integrated later into this body). We think we are individuals but we are as interconnected and interdependent as cells of a single human body and we are all part of that single body. We are also not diminished by this as God loves all of the parts of this single body and knows that we feel as individuals and God desires to meet all our needs including our individuality and that is why we do not see ourselves as a single cell of a multi-celled entity. This gives us all equal importants in God’ plan as God’s child is perfect, no parts will be left out or diminished.
That single body suffered horribly, so each member of that body suffered horribly. You, me, the man Jesus and everyone you may see is all part of that body’s suffering. Jesus the man, others and us suffered because that body was put through so much suffering. It was not to ‘top off the tank’, but it was the suffering to each member of the single body from the event that Satan inflicted on us (the combined body) but it was just a single suffering to one body.
The above I believe is a reality, we are all a single body which is also a single human family though we don’t see this body.
Now adding in a analogy:
We are currently like fetal cells of Lord Jesus (the combined body mentioned above) undifferentiated and competing for resources - each person but a single cell. We all have a divine (perfect) place in the body, some eyes, some hands, and yes some assholes, and we must learn to specialize and trust that what abilities we let go of in becoming a specialized cell we will now receive the needed resources freely, formerly we used to depend on our ability to obtain them. We are also expected to contribute from our specialization - and this would be things we desire to do, so much so that the work we do (and get paid for in this world) is equal to us playing. This is God’s divine plan and also our destiny and again these are the same thing.
All that above is to show that the suffering you ask about (the cross), has to be answered in terms of all human suffering combined. It also points to human suffering is caused externally by Satan, so there is no blame on any person.
So before I go into the suffering issue I’d like your feedback as to how you took the above, thx.
Why would this think this would contradict my belief? I tell you it does not. If I were to disqualify this do to my belief I would be also disqualifying myself in the process.
