# On Re-reading all of Robert Heinlein via The Virginia Edition **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 14, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729 "2012-10-14T23:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/21 "2012-10-17T12:06:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, they were published at about the same time? I had always assumed that Heinlein wrote _Tunnel_ as a deliberate response to _Flies_, since the parallels (and perpendiculars) are so obvious. > > As for the main character’s race, his comparison of his sister to Caroline Mbutu could also be taken to indicate a society where skin color isn’t considered any more important than any other superficial feature. Besides, that comparison was never primarily about physical appearance, but more about personality and attitude. i was surprised to find that Jules Verne had written a very simillar book over 65 years earlier. _Two Years Holiday/Adrift in the Pacific_ (\*Deux ans de vacances \*) is about a ship full of boys from a boys’ school who get marooned on an island and have to survive on their own, dealing with not only their physical survival but also their rivalries and disagreements. I’d bhe interested to know if either Heinlein or Golding knew about this. In any event, Verne’s schoolboys act i n the best Jules Verne Shipwrecked Hero tradition and manage to arrange a workable societty, as in Heinlein, and don’t go tribal-wild, as in Golding. _Verne really loved Robinson Crusoe and the Swis Family Robinson stories. There are a lot of such survival storioes in his works, inclding two sequels to SFR. His own Desert Island Clasic, The Mysterious Island_, started off as a SFR-type story before he rewrote it as a non-family story. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/22 "2012-10-17T12:16:07Z")
While we are on TITS (like Dave Hardwick I’d never noticed that 😃 ) can anybody tell me what RAH was thinking of when he mentioned the Walker’s religion. Early in the book he says: > [@](#): > > Dinner was on the table, still warm in its delivery containers; they took their places, standing, and Mr. Walker solemnly lighted the Peace Lamp. The family was evangelical Monist by inheritance, each of Rod’s grandfathers having been converted in the second great wave of proselyting that swept out of Persia in the last decade of the previous century, and Rod’s father took seriously his duties as family priest. What’s “Monist”? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/23 "2012-10-17T12:21:52Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > While we are on TITS (like Dave Hardwick I’d never noticed that 😃 ) can anybody tell me what RAH was thinking of when he mentioned the Walker’s religion. Early in the book he says: > > What’s “Monist”? > **[Monism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism)** > > Monism attributes oneness or singleness (Greek: μόνος) to a concept, such as to existence. Various kinds of monism can be distinguished: > There are two sorts of definitions for monism: > Although the term monism is derived from Western philosophy to typify positions in the mind–body problem, it has also been used to typify religious traditions. In modern Hinduism, the term "absolute monism" has been applied to Advaita Vedanta, though Philip Renard points out that this may be a Western interpretati... Heinlein loves throwing out disorienting bits in his book. Isn’t the family neo-Zoroastrian in this book, too? By the way, what does it say about me thsat I noticed the acronym TITS a _long_ time ago? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/24 "2012-10-17T12:51:45Z")
Either nothing good or something awesome, Cal. Six’ll get you five and pick’em. I, too, had never noticed the acronym. And it’s likely I read this book 10 times during my pre-teen and teen years. And trust me, I was obsessed with the subject of the acronym. So I first became aware of it having read the introduction earlier this week. Now I can’t unsee it. And I admit as well that I had to look up Monism and such when I was a boy to understand what was going on. That might have been my first experience with religions other than Christianity and Judaism. But I wouldn’t count on that. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/25 "2012-10-17T16:17:11Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > While we are on TITS (like Dave Hardwick I’d never noticed that 😃 ) can anybody tell me what RAH was thinking of when he mentioned the Walker’s religion. Early in the book he says: > > What’s “Monist”? People who worship [Monet](https://www.google.com/search?q=Monet&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=vFs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&prmd=imvnsua&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8tl-UKanEoyK9QTF4IDADw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1021&bih=745), of course. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/26 "2012-10-17T16:18:32Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > People who worship [Monet](https://www.google.com/search?q=Monet&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=vFs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&prmd=imvnsua&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8tl-UKanEoyK9QTF4IDADw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1021&bih=745), of course. Monet isn’t everything. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/27 "2012-10-17T17:20:08Z")
The lack of Monet is the root of all evil! ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/28 "2012-10-17T17:43:12Z")
_Monet for nothing and TITS for free_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/29 "2012-10-17T17:51:04Z")
Rod’s family’s religion is another classic Heinlein touch of barely mentioned throw-away details that emphasize the strangeness of the future in the midst of the familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/30 "2012-10-17T18:22:24Z")
Yeah, like how Rod lives in the Grand Canyon suburb of Greater New York. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/31 "2012-10-17T19:56:33Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Yeah, like how Rod lives in the Grand Canyon suburb of Greater New York. This is one of those delicious details which shows that Heinlein really thought hard about the ramifications of the science in his stories. If you have teleporters, then why couldn’t a ‘city’ be a legal concept more than a geographic area? You can imagine remote towns and regions choosing which city to join, and then being legally incorporated into them as ‘suburbs’ even though they might be across the continent or across the world. Heinlein probably had reams of background information drawn up for the story that no one ever saw. He was the kind of writer who could spend days working out the details that would allow him to get a single sentence right. He was famous for doing this with spaceflight - A throwaway line in a story about how long a trip took would be the result of hours of hours of orbital calculations by Robert and Virginia. I wish more writers paid that much attention to detail. It’s those little touches that make a book feel grounded and real - especially important with science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/32 "2012-10-17T21:25:37Z")
“The door dilated…” RAH said that it was the little things that had the greatest impact in show a _different_ place/time/society. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/33 "2012-10-17T21:51:21Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > TITS (never noticed that) is a favorite for me. I’ve probably read it more times than any other of RAH’s juvies. Did you catch the scene where another kid mentions that Rod’s phone is “sounding”? I like to think that not only did RAH predict the mobile phone, but he also predicted the ring tone. At least, that’s how I remember it. Wish I had a (searchable) copy. In “Space Cadet” one of the cadets waiting in line at induction mentions that he turned off his phone so he wouldn’t have to talk to his parents. Also in “Between Planets” the main character is out horseback riding in the canyon when he gets a phone call. Future generations aren’t going to realize that these were supposed to be throw-away science fictional bits. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/34 "2012-10-17T23:06:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > In “Space Cadet” one of the cadets waiting in line at induction mentions that he turned off his phone so he wouldn’t have to talk to his parents. He has characters turn off or leave behind their pocketphones in several stories - Lost Legion and Blowups Happen to name just two. I have observed several times on this board that predicting the pocketphone (ie: a cell phone) is pretty trivial. Predicting that people would find being always reachable to be a royal pain in the ass: genius. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/35 "2012-10-18T03:30:27Z")
Huh, I picked up on the religion, and just filed it away mentally as “OK, in this future, things are a bit different, and some novel new religion has sprung up and become established as semi-mainstream. I guess it’s sort of like the Mormons.”. But I never realized that it was a _real_ religion that he was using. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/36 "2012-10-18T11:28:44Z")
Yep. Heinlein was throwing in a real thing that would still feel alien to his young readers. Nice trick. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/37 "2012-10-18T12:05:05Z")
Thanks for the link! I’m with \*\*Chronos \*\* - mostly I filed it in the same pile as “the door dilated”, set dressing to make the future different, although I think there was a background element of “I’d understand this if I was American” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/38 "2012-10-18T13:52:47Z")
Well, forget that. I’m American and it threw me as well! **Interstitial note on reading Starship Troopers:** In the section at the beginning of boot camp where Zim is offering to fight the boots. The section fight Zim has is with two German boys. It contains this sentence: Zim: “And tell your Korpsbruder that I’m ready now.” I don’t recall ever reading that line before. Can someone check me on that? Is it possible that even an oblique reference to the Wehrmacht was still too touchy at that point? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/39 "2012-10-18T13:55:17Z")
I remember that line from my copy. I don’t have it here at school to check, but I remember it. Because the lines previous indicate that one of the German boots doesn’t speak English, and Zim says that he didn’t either when he first signed up. “Rules?” “How can there be, with three?” “True. But we should agree that gouged eyes are to be given back after the round.” _Agast Boot._ ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729/40 "2012-10-18T13:59:07Z")
Yes, the line with Korpsbruder occurs immediately following that exchange. I’m perfectly willing to be educated here. But there have been many versions. Somewhere around here I have the pulps with the original serialization of ST (called ‘Starship Soldiers’). Maybe I’ll check that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-re-reading-all-of-robert-heinlein-via-the-virginia-edition/637729.md?page=3)